A brief update for anyone interested

Brief update for anyone interested

Since I did my long update a week ago, here are my results quickly from the end of the calendar quarter.

My year-to-date results are up 40.9%, which is up a tiny tad from the end of April, when I was up 40.7%.

How about the indexes?

The S&P 500 (Large Cap)
Closed up 9.8% year-to-date. (It started the year at 2507 and is now at 2752). It was up 17.3% at the end of April so it gave up 43.4% of its year-to-date gains during May.

The Russell 2000 (Small and Mid Cap)
Closed up 11.1% year-to-date. (It started the year at 1349 and is now at 1465). It was up 18.0% at the end of April so it gave up 38.3% of its year-to-date gains in May.

The IJS ETF (Small Cap Value)
Closed up 5.1% year-to-date. (It started the year at 131.9 and is now at 138.6). It was up 17.3% at the end of April so it gave up 70.5% of its year-to-date gains in May.

These three indexes
Averaged up 8.7% year-to-date. They were up 17.5% at the end of April so they gave up 50.3% of their previous year-to-date gains in May.

If you throw in the Dow, which is up 6.4% and the Nasdaq, which is up 12.3% you get up 8.9% for the five of them year to date. They were up 17.8% at the end of April so they dropped almost 9 points on average in a month, and they gave up 50.0% of their previous year-to-date gains in May.

There you have the story in a nutshell:

The five indexes gave up 50% of their year to date gains in May, while our “ridiculously over-valued” stocks, which were sure to crash when the market goes down, and punish us for our effrontery in challenging what the investing experts and textbooks say, were flat in May (a tiny bit up actually).

Thinking back to 2018, the five averages, the “Market,” was down 8.5% for the year, and most of us were up over 50%.

That’s what I’ve been saying, in spite of all the doubt, and all the waiting for our comeuppance by those who believe what the ancient textbooks and the “experts” have predicted.

Best,

Saul

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For what it’s worth, I do think the market will head down even further due to the trade war, which I think is a temporary problem. During the downturn that I think we are in, I believe our stocks will significantly underperform for a brief period of time.

Historically, value stocks are the best to hold in a declining market. Initially, value stocks fall at the same rate as the market, then stabilize at a floor and come out a bit better than the average stock. Growth stocks tend to decline more. For those of us invested in SaaS stocks, me included, I think that our holdings will be initially viewed as “priced for perfection” and ripe for a fall. Just like value stocks are not appreciated during a downturn, subscription stocks may not be appreciated. I don’t think it will take long for that to change. As Saul has said, subscriptions will bolster our businesses. I think this will be a new way to look at value, and I think this will be very interesting to see how we will do during a correction or worse.

Best,

bulwnkl

100% long - hopefully not 100% off topic.

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Historically, value stocks are the best to hold in a declining market. Initially, value stocks fall at the same rate as the market, then stabilize at a floor and come out a bit better than the average stock. Growth stocks tend to decline more. For those of us invested in SaaS stocks, me included, I think that our holdings will be initially viewed as “priced for perfection” and ripe for a fall. Just like value stocks are not appreciated during a downturn, subscription stocks may not be appreciated. I don’t think it will take long for that to change. As Saul has said, subscriptions will bolster our businesses. I think this will be a new way to look at value, and I think this will be very interesting to see how we will do during a correction or worse.

I would normally agree with you Bulwinkl but the cloud has finally taken off. These companies are building a new infrastucture and they are not going to stop till they grow it out. Don’t jump off the train till the tracks have been built.

Andy

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During the downturn that I think we are in, I believe our stocks will significantly underperform for a brief period of time.

Hi Bulwinkl,

On what basis do you “believe” that? We went through a three month decline in Oct through Dec in which the markets declined 20% as I remember, to a year-to-date down 14.5% at the bottom, and our stocks never got below plus 40% year-to-date. And while the averages finished at -8.5% for 2018, our stocks finished up over 50% for the year (my portfolio finished up over 70%).

And then we just had a 5-week drop in which the averages lost 50% of their gains for this year, down 9 points, and our stocks were flat. Where do you have any indication based on reality for your belief? As Andy just wrote:

the cloud has finally taken off. These companies are building a new infrastucture and they are not going to stop till they grow it out.

And as I have tried to point out, enterprises will continue paying their SaaS subscriptions like they pay their electric bill. From the Conference Call,

A U.S. based conglomerate has been a Zscaler customer since 2015, using our business bundle, for it’s two dozen portfolio companies to protect 70,000 employees around the world.

This customer purchased ZPA for 40,000 users to replace multiple remote access VPN solutions and made ZPA the standard solution across multiple portfolio companies, that driver customer is moving its applications to SaaS and public cloud and needed a future proof solution that provides secure and fast access to the applications. In addition, as this conglomerate actively acquires new businesses ZIA and ZPA will enable them to quickly integrate the acquired companies.

If the trade war causes a recession, this company may stop growing but they sure as heck are going to keep paying their Zscaler subscription bill.

Best,

Saul

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value stocks are the best to hold in a declining market

It is true that large enterprises see contraction and pressure on sales during economic downturns.

In these cases, they often slow spend on building and expansion and retrench to their core operations.

It is worth asking, what is the role of SaaS during these times for operations

Options

  1. Discontinue the uses of third party offerings to save money

To understand this, let’s understand if these third party offerings are in business units that are fundamental to the business or are dependent on the business environment.

This analysis is grounded on the acceptance of the emerging digital economy for business whether its eBusiness or large worker mobility or the shift of standard business tools such as MSFT moving the the cloud. You can’t escape it.

Fundamental
For both of these, I see a downturn as an opportunity driver vs headwinds…these are cost cutting solutions that are fundamental to a business.

Security (ZS, OKTA)
Security of your business information at enterprise level is mission critical.

Both OKTA and ZS perform in this space.

Let’s imagine a companies alternative to these solutions. It includes the addition of many headcount managing many additional security devices, programs, internal processes and procedures, to perform what can be accomplished for the fraction of the headcount.

Do we think a company is going to bring this in house?!? Absolutely not. The threat here is not the economic downturn, it’s the emergence of the next best thing. This bet is on the leaders and innovators.

Safety (EVBG)
Most of not all large enterprises, and governments, have workers at multiple locations. Many of these enterprises have requirements, if not expectations, to have the ability to notify employees of safety issues and organize incident response teams as required by regulators, or the corporate structure.

These folks depend on the ability to quickly, efficiently, and effectively communicate and organize teams of people.

This can be a home grown solution requiring a cohort of folks managing and pulling information together, keeping lists updated, constantly going through checks and documents. Or…it could be integrated and embedded with your HR systems, work management systems, monitoring tools, and external sources. For the costs of less than a couple headcount. Not on the chopping block during a downturn.

Dependent
These can ramp up or down depending on the companies output and appetite for growth.

Business Operations (SHOP, SQ)
These are very directly tied with the appetite of consumers. I see some risk related to these. However, if you are going into business, both of these companies have created one stop shops to simply pop-up your business. Once you’ve done that you won’t leave them until your business folds…

Customer Service (TWLO)
Communicating with customers is important to all businesses. TWLO makes this easier than anyone. Much has been said about the costs associated with that, and perhaps as Uber did, there is a point of saturation where it may be worth building this in house. But that’s rare and not applicable to a downturn.

The risk here would be reduced usage of the platform and reduced companies trying to expand and grow. But once you’ve built it, the only use cases we’ve seen for leaving are to get to big or to die.

Operational Efficiency (AYX)
AYX starts as a luxury or experiment for some and turns into a core product quickly. It’s the ease at which you can pull segregated data into a common environment and the drag and drop tools to build the analysis. Once a company begins building these analysis and efficiencies…I think the risk is shifted completely to the team using the tool and their ability to prove worth. I see this at some risk because of a cost up front…but the AYX team has proven themselves very capable at selling the payback which would probably be enticing during a downturn when companies are crunching numbers and wasting many man hours in excel to find the answers.

Sales and Marketing (TTD)

Probably the riskiest category, yet, TTD has done a good job working to diversify their markets such that a downturn might have to be global to see the full impacts…unless it happens more quickly than we suspect…

Anti-trust if the big 3
More and more use of digital platforms and mobile
Giving data back to the client without sacrificing our personal info.

Those are the tailwinds

IT Operations (APPN, ESTC, MDB)
Not my wheelhouse, but my sense is that if you can find a database company you can pay to manage all the infrastructure for you, it’s cheaper than pulling it back in house.

I also have to believe that the ability to innovate using a code base that empowers client side solutions (APPN, ESTC) to meet customer demands for more and more intuitive and simple solutions in the palm of our hand, is better than trying to buy off the shelf solutions.

I bucket these risks as the same as AYX, minus the costs. You have the have the talent in-house to take advantage of the coding and flexibility of the tool coupled with their business knowledge. You lose that knowledge and you lose value here.

Just a Fools musings

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The S&P 500 (Large Cap)
Closed up 9.8% year-to-date. (It started the year at 2507 and is now at 2752).

A more fair comparison is to include dividends, and to assume that dividends are re-invested in the S&P. Here’s what that looks like:

https://www.buyupside.com/shillerdatainfo/stockreturncalccom…

Up 13.11% year to date. Still not close to what we do here, but a more accurate comparison. BTW, the math there says the equivalent annualized return is 44.7%.

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Interesting classification…

I agree 100% with your classification of OKTA and ZS. In fact I added to ZS on the slight pull back. I really want to add to OKTA and I have earlier in May but I always found it ‘fully valued’- whatever that means… not that ZS is not…

where do you see SPLK falling into?

tj

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Hi Saul,

And as I have tried to point out, enterprises will continue paying their SaaS subscriptions like they pay their electric bill. From the Conference Call,

I have really been thinking the valuation thing over. These stocks we are investing in all have a high P/S. I was trading in and out of Shop, Meli, and recently I traded out of Okta thinking they would drop this last earnings report. What a mistake. Okta is very high for their growth rate but then I started thinking. I was able to trade in and out of shop and make some good money, but then it got away from me, Meli the same thing, but now Okta I am going to buy back in and just hold it.

What I came to realize and what I was worried about is that all the valuations are high but when the market starts dropping all of our stocks hardly drop at all. Why? Because the market realizes that the stocks that we are investing in are needed. People are saying this is like the tech stocks of 1999. They say this because they are worried. Everyone remembers that drop. I think they are right but they have the year wrong. This is the start of the tech run. Think of Microsoft in 1986 when they IPO’d. Yes the valuations are very high, but it’s because the market realizes what these companies will become.

So, instead of thinking about the valuations I think Tinker has it right. Think about the Cap, Tam, Sam. What can the company’s market cap be? Some of these companies will easily reach 100 billion market cap, Many of them will be at least 10 bagger. The Tam on these companies is huge because they are software companies that are building the cloud. How long have we heard that the cloud is coming, It was slow but now it finally is here, everyone, everyone is moving to the cloud. The Sam, well they can reach every corner of the world, so they really have as big a Sam as Tam, these are not restaurant chains. As long as they can get a salesman to them they can sell their product. Then when word of mouth gets out they will sell even faster. Finally I think we need to think about Som.

https://www.thebusinessplanshop.com/blog/en/entry/tam_sam_so…

The Serviceable Obtainable Market is your short term target and therefore the one that matters the most: if you cannot succeed on a fraction of the local market chances are that you will never capture a large part of the global market.

These companies are already showing that they can win on Som. Many of them are saying they have no real competition. They are basically monopolies at a small scale at this point but eventually they will be huge.

That is why I am not going to trade anymore. I am going to put all my money into the 10 stocks I think are the best and just let them grow. This is an exciting time because we are investing at the start of an expanding business cycle. It’s called the Cloud and it is going to be Huge. Some of us are going to be big winners, we just need to keep out of the way of trying to outsmart this market

Andy

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The issue isn’t that, during a downturn, all SAAS firms will stop being used, or that tech will be pulled back in-house, or they’ll give up on Network Security, using databases, and storage.

It’s that firms will be forced to compete more on price. I can always switch to newer, better or cheaper with extremely rare exceptions [like ADBE].

Margins will contract, revenues may drop, but in any case – growth will be slower than before. Your customers can go out of business completely.[That’s why the focus on Enterprise rather than SMEs] That’s what it means to be in a ‘recession!’

Take a high-flying software company XYZ with a PE of 80x, so it makes money which is great, but has a pricey valuation, growth is 50% for argument’s sake.
$80 price on $1 of EPS.

During the recession, that growth slows [maybe temporarily maybe not] to 20%. Which is still good almost all the time. But now, the market is only willing to give you 40x earnings on $1.20 or $48 share price, and only would be as high as 40x if they did think growth would definitely re-accelerate.

You’re now at 60% of your buy price.

Now look at a more bearish scenario of zero growth or even temporary negative growth. You’re looking at 20-25x EPS of $0.90-$1 so a 75-80% drop in price during a recession [or product cycle miss].

Again, maybe that’s temporary and a year later it’s off the races again, but I can tell you from experience that most investors and most on this board won’t have the stomach to hold through that part of the market-cycle, and many if not most will sell at the bottom when the pain is the greatest.

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People are saying this is like the tech stocks of 1999. They say this because they are worried. Everyone remembers that drop. I think they are right but they have the year wrong. This is the start of the tech run. Think of Microsoft in 1986 when they IPO’d. Yes the valuations are very high, but it’s because the market realizes what these companies will become.

MSFT went public at $21 and made $1.56 in GAAP profits that year, on $198m in Revenues. Not an apt comparison at all.

Most, not all, of these tech stocks are like the ones back in 1999. Many will go out of business in the next recession, or be bought out at a price way under most of our purchase prices.

The trick is to identify the truly great ones that will survive and thrive during that recession.

Long ADBE, OKTA, SQ, TWLO.

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It’s that firms will be forced to compete more on price. I can always switch to newer, better or cheaper . . .

No, they can’t, at least not with s/w that becomes deeply embedded in their day to day operations. Switching is not just costly, it’s disruptive and it’s fraught with unknowns. Id the conversion complete, has anything gotten screwed up in the process, users and techs have to be retrained, etc., etc. There’s a lot of inhibitions to swapping out something as integral as primary security or a DBMS. A price improvement is not going to be sufficient in most case unless it’s very dramatic. But what competitor can do that? This is not as simple as you might think.

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