# 14 year record broken! **URL:** \ **Category:** Macro Economic Trends and Risks\ **Created:** [January 16, 2025, 7:57pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/14-year-record-broken/112362 "2025-01-16T19:57:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Divitias](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/divitias/32/9302_2.png) [@Divitias](https://discussion.fool.com/u/Divitias)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2025, 7:57pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/14-year-record-broken/112362/1 "2025-01-16T19:57:13Z")
After years of cheap loans the zombies are dying. Problem is that the banks will be left with the bill: > **[U.S. corporate bankruptcies hit post-crisis high: S&P | Investment Executive](https://www.investmentexecutive.com/news/research-and-markets/u-s-corporate-bankruptcies-hit-post-crisis-high-sp/)** > > Troubled consumer discretionary sector leads insolvency surge It’s 2008 all over again! Get the printing presses work overtime. ---
**Author:** ![MarkR](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/markr/32/2011_2.png) [@MarkR](https://discussion.fool.com/u/MarkR)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2025, 9:12pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/14-year-record-broken/112362/2 "2025-01-16T21:12:09Z")
> [@Divitias](#): > > Problem is that the banks will be left with the bill Only the banks that lent money to zombies (or to companies that would become zombies because they never generated sufficient cash flow to pay back the loans). Any bank that extends credit to someone at 3%, knowing that prevailing rates are usually 6%, either needs to run the credit assuming a 6% interest rate schedule (even if it starts at 3%), or needs to decline loaning money at the abnormally low rate in the first place. The same holds true for the opposite case. Any lender that can lock in unusually high rates should do so. For example, if you ever see 30-year bonds in the double digits like we saw in the early 80s, grab as much of them as you can get. Or if you see TIPS at 4+% as we saw around 1999/2000. ---
**Author:** ![Leap1](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/leap1/32/72176_2.png) [@Leap1](https://discussion.fool.com/u/Leap1)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2025, 11:44pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/14-year-record-broken/112362/3 "2025-01-16T23:44:17Z")
> [@Divitias](#): > > It’s 2008 all over again! Get the printing presses work overtime. And we have the clowns you wanted. Everyone I know is figuring out how to make money in a downturn. Getting rid of TikTok means more kids will play video games. ---
**Author:** ![DrBob2](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/drbob2/32/3456_2.png) [@DrBob2](https://discussion.fool.com/u/DrBob2)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 12:11pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/14-year-record-broken/112362/4 "2025-01-17T12:11:25Z")
For a longer perspective… ![Screenshot 2025-01-17 at 6.06.53 AM](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/original/3X/9/7/97ca28b36ba8a298854dcc4b45a47ffafcc7ba53.png) > **[United States Bankruptcies](https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/bankruptcies)** > > Bankruptcies in the United States increased to 22762 Companies in the third quarter of 2024 from 22060 Companies in the second quarter of 2024. This page provides - United States Bankruptcies - actual values, historical data, forecast, chart,... DB2 ---
**Author:** ![Leap1](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/leap1/32/72176_2.png) [@Leap1](https://discussion.fool.com/u/Leap1)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 12:17pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/14-year-record-broken/112362/5 "2025-01-17T12:17:52Z")
Bob, That chart makes sense. We have had the beginnings of demand side econ since 2008 but it was stymied in Congress out of ignorance. We see the 2009-11 spike because of Supply-Side policies. Demand side economics is so much more successful rates of bankruptcies have fallen dramatically. But with all the lies possible to be spouted we will have one more completely failed attempt at supply-side economics. ---
**Author:** ![DrBob2](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/drbob2/32/3456_2.png) [@DrBob2](https://discussion.fool.com/u/DrBob2)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 1:01pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/14-year-record-broken/112362/6 "2025-01-17T13:01:01Z")
> [@Leap1](#): > > That chart makes sense. We have had the beginnings of demand side econ since 2008… At the same time, there was also a massive two-decade decline starting back in the mid-80s. I believe you would call that the supply-side era. DB2 ---
**Author:** ![steve203](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/steve203/32/3302_2.png) [@steve203](https://discussion.fool.com/u/steve203)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 3:03pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/14-year-record-broken/112362/7 "2025-01-17T15:03:05Z")
> [@DrBob2](#): > > At the same time, there was also a massive two-decade decline starting back in the mid-80s. I believe you would call that the supply-side era. Are there fewer bankruptcies because there are fewer companies? ![us-listed-companies-705x390](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/original/3X/2/4/2452207b265d62c289bb7856e16a1fb2764f732c.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![DrBob2](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/drbob2/32/3456_2.png) [@DrBob2](https://discussion.fool.com/u/DrBob2)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 3:09pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/14-year-record-broken/112362/8 "2025-01-17T15:09:02Z")
> [@steve203](#): > > Are there fewer bankruptcies because there are fewer companies? I was wondering about that myself. Do you have a link for that graph with numbers? DB2 ---
**Author:** ![steve203](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/steve203/32/3302_2.png) [@steve203](https://discussion.fool.com/u/steve203)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 3:21pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/14-year-record-broken/112362/9 "2025-01-17T15:21:27Z")
> [@DrBob2](#): > > I was wondering about that myself. Do you have a link for that graph with numbers? That particular graph came from this article, tho there are similar articles around. This article also has a graph of the number of IPOs per year, which has declined, a lot, since the 90s. > **[Why Has the Number of Public Companies Declined?](https://www.bluetrust.com/blogs/why-has-the-number-of-public-companies-declined/)** > > The recent near-highs of the stock market are masking a trend from the last few decades: The number of publicly traded U.S. companies has dropped significantly. In 1996 the number of listed companies in the U.S. peaked at 8,090, but as of Q1 2023, it... ---
**Author:** ![DrBob2](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/drbob2/32/3456_2.png) [@DrBob2](https://discussion.fool.com/u/DrBob2)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 3:44pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/14-year-record-broken/112362/10 "2025-01-17T15:44:26Z")
We have a problem here with different data. For example, the percentage of US companies that are exchange listed is only 10-15% and has changed over the years. Also, what size companies are included? The pub down at the corner? The plastics injection company on the edge of town? DB2 ---
**Author:** ![steve203](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/steve203/32/3302_2.png) [@steve203](https://discussion.fool.com/u/steve203)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 3:55pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/14-year-record-broken/112362/11 "2025-01-17T15:55:31Z")
> [@DrBob2](#): > > For example, the percentage of US companies that are exchange listed is only 10-15% and has changed over the years. Reasonable point. Chew on this, percentage of employees working for small businesses. This would imply that small business accounts for a shrinking part of the economy, relative to large companies. So, while the number of listed companies shrinks, they account for a greater percentage of employment. ![employment_o](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/original/3X/0/e/0ea7766d1d2bb754c15a9ea3ef60d86b307cf227.webp) > **[Small Business's Share of Employment is Shrinking](https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottshane/2012/04/21/small-businesss-share-of-employment-is-shrinking/)** > > Less of the labor force is working in small businesses than in the early 1990s. After a brief resurgence from 2001 to 2004, the share of private sector employment in companies with between 1 and 249 employees has fallen.  Bureau of Labor... ---
**Author:** ![steve203](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/steve203/32/3302_2.png) [@steve203](https://discussion.fool.com/u/steve203)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 4:00pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/14-year-record-broken/112362/12 "2025-01-17T16:00:47Z")
Net change in number of small businesses, by year, since the late 70s. Less business formation, fewer to go bankrupt. ![newbusiness-1](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/original/3X/a/b/ab96e424b0dee741fa4af0ae6b064d874576754e.png) > **[The Business of America Is Small Business: Heeding the Lessons of The Pandemic](https://economics.td.com/business-america-small)** > > The Business of America Is Small Business: Heeding the Lessons of The Pandemic ---
**Author:** ![Leap1](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/leap1/32/72176_2.png) [@Leap1](https://discussion.fool.com/u/Leap1)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 6:06pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/14-year-record-broken/112362/13 "2025-01-17T18:06:45Z")
> [@DrBob2](#): > > At the same time, there was also a massive two-decade decline starting back in the mid-80s. I believe you would call that the supply-side era. eh? Same chart? You’d need a longer term chart for that claim. The chart shows a rise into the 90s. The 1981 to 2020 period is supply side but it should have been 1981 to 2008. Unfortunately very selfish people have a say to screw up.