Answers to questions:

Question #1 – Someone has asked multiple times if anyone knows what Bert’s current positions are? The answer is:

“Of course not!”

No one I know posts their current positions (except Bear and me). The Motley Fool principals post whether they are long a stock or not, but you can’t tell whether they have just one share of it, or whether they have invested half the family assets in it. Seeking Alpha posters say if they are long or short the stock, but you can’t tell whether they are talking about 1 share, or 100,000 shares. You also can’t tell whether they have “no position” but the company they work for has a huge position, or a huge short position.

Why don’t people post their current positions? Because then you have to deal with the embarrassment if your positions don’t work out, you may have to talk about changes before you are ready, and because you have to justify each change. In fact, even on this board, people don’t post their current positions (except Bear and me), and I certainly don’t expect them too. So I don’t expect the questioner will ever know what Bert’s current positions are, although at the time he writes about a stock Bert does tell you if he’s long or not (ie. Amazon, Shopify, etc), and the ones he’s not in but is considering.

Question #2 - Someone asked me the following question off-board. I thought I should share my answer with all of you.

“First, thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience with the rest of us. I sincerely appreciate what you do. Typically, I don’t read analyst coverage, because I’ve found them to be biased or from an untrustworthy source. Instead, I stick to TMF and the boards. This is also due to the fact that I have a full-time job and don’t have time to seek out good analysts.

However, after reading Bert’s analyses, they made me think of some things I haven’t thought of on some of my investments and left me thinking that I’d like to find a few more analysts to read so that I can get a better perspective on companies in which I am invested.

Could you please send me a couple recommendations of analysts you find worthy of your time to read? I respect your opinion, and this would provide me with a holidays reading task. I didn’t want to ask you on the boards, because I didn’t want to have a bunch of threads get created like the one on Bert. Most of us make mistakes and atone for them. Regardless, Bert is a good analyst, and I like reading his work.

I answered as follows: Actually I haven’t encountered any other analysts like Bert, who give you all the warts, as well as the good points, and tell you what they don’t know, what they don’t understand, and what they can’t predict. Most of the guys who write for Seeking Alpha just write brief articles, with a couple of points that they are trying to make. Some of them turn out to be guys a year or two out of high school. Others really have an ax to grind.

I do subscribe to MF Rule Breakers and MF Stock Advisors, and look at their recommendations for ideas. I tried MF One for a year or two but found I didn’t use most of it and Rule Breakers and Stock Advisors seem the best part. Remember though that MF is a business, trying to get people to sign up for their paid subscriptions, so you have to take their advertising blurbs with a grain of salt. Bert, on the other hand, is primarily just sharing his knowledge (and getting paid for so doing by Seeking Alpha).

I hope that helps.

Saul

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Seeking Alpha posters say if they are long or short the stock, but you can’t tell whether they are talking about 1 share, or 100,000 shares.

Correct, but… In the absence of detailed info, you can take all the recs from an analyst and assume a uniform distribution. This will not be exact but with a large sample, this approximation can come surprisingly close.

#6

This will not be exact but with a large sample, this approximation can come surprisingly close.

I see no reason to expect that the approximation would be at all close. A writer could easily have 90% of their money in index funds and the remaining in little slices of things to play with and there would be no indication of that in the information provided.

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A writer could easily have 90% of their money in index funds and the remaining in little slices of things to play with and there would be no indication of that in the information provided.

Or he could easily have 90% of his money in a stock he hasn’t even mentioned, and the remaining in little slices of things to play with, and there would be no indication of that in the information provided.

Or he could easily have 90% of his money in just one of the stocks he mentioned, and the remaining in little slices of things to play with, and there would be no indication of that in the information provided.

Saul

Or he could easily have 90% of his money in just one of the stocks he mentioned, and the remaining in little slices of things to play with, and there would be no indication of that in the information provided.

Or he could easily have 75% of his money in a stock he once mentioned disparagingly and then changed his mind on, and the remaining in a weird mix of eastern European stocks, and there would be no indication of that in the information provided.

Or he could easily have 56% of his money in calls on a stock similar to one he mentioned, and the remaining in paired trades tied to macroeconomic themes, and there would be no indication of that in the information provided.

HM

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Or he could have all of his money in a piggy bank

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The difficulties with #2 is that the best analysts aren’t going to give up that info for free, as they are already managing their own money. Bert would be a special case because of his past, so he must make a living by writing and trying to convert a large following for ad revenue. Additionally, institutional analysts, as the person who asked you the question noted, are generally not in the business of actually getting things right, there’s career risk embedded if they go against the crowd and end up being wrong - better to just write what everyone else is thinking. There’s a chart floating out there on one analyst firms recs on weight watchers, and it’s been neutral for the past five years, while the price has swung anywhere between 10 and 85! He is right to not trust them

I find it helpful to read through hedge fund letters: www.valuewalk.com/2016/09/q3-2016-hedge-fund-letters/

While you don’t get as in depth of an analysis on specific companies, it’s a glimpse into the thinking processes of people who have to make a living off of this stuff. Which is why Saul’s board is so valuable in the first place (the knowledge base is much more useful to most investors than the day to day discussions, if everyone consulted it once a week, there would be less mistakes made due to emotion spurred on by market noise, and that goes for both depression from falling prices as well as jubilation from unwarranted/lucky increases). You occasionally get some good ideas out of them as well

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A writer could easily have 90% of their money in index funds and the remaining in little slices of things to play with and there would be no indication of that in the information provided.

You all are giving me the corner cases. Is it possible that an SA writer will have 90% in an index fund? Sure. It is likely? Hell no. People that invest 90% of their money in index funds will write articles about their index funds selections and how they are so much better than individual stocks…

As we used to say in grad school, if you torture the data long enough, it will tell you whatever you want to hear.

The key reason why people do not expose their portfolio is very simple: Because the vast majority of investors suck and will not beat the index over the long term.

#6

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Because the vast majority of investors suck and will not beat the index over the long term.

That is not the whole problem. I believe that “An index” being an index beats nothing because it is an index. The real question is does the index beat actual expenditures that a portfolio is really for?

We start off working to pay our bills and expenses. We save and invest our money to pay our bills and expenses when we are not able to work ourselves.

We want the money to work and support us when we can’t do it ourselves anymore.

b&w

Typically, I don’t read analyst coverage, because I’ve found them to be biased or from an untrustworthy source.

just a different view - not trying to convince anybody, but a different viewpoint since i read lots and lots of analyst reports:

1 - there are no bad analysts - there are just bad investors. If you read a piece and decide to act on it, it is 100% your responsibility. So never blame an analyst - esp if you got the research for free.

2 - many sell-side reports focus on a couple things: 1) conference call transcripts from the latest earnings report and 2) where they deviate from consensus, and 3) what the ‘view’ is on a stock. Some analyst reports are initiation reports while some are just EPS updates. All have value, assuming you get #1

3 - analyst reports are written by many different analysts. Sure, an obvious point, but you get many different types of people writing these reports with many investment styles and writing at many different points in times to many different audiences. You never make generalizations - this is just silly. See #1.

4 - anybody, and I mean anybody, can write an ‘analyst’ report. First thing you might do with any analyst report is look who wrote it and then remember that 99.9x out of 100 you don’t know this person. All analyst reports are are tips, and sometimes they are helpful, sometimes not. See #1

5 - Consensus estimates and opinions on stocks and the wide view are VERY helpful - if you look at what the analyst is saying what he is saying. For example, is this conclusion short-term? Is he or she reacting to transitory events? Is this guy or gal a lemming? Again, falls back on #1.

I LOVE analyst reports. I won’t look at ANY domestic stock without Value Line in hand - mainly for the presentation of numbers (though sometimes even they are buggy), but for many other reasons. I like boards like this one and I like newsletters and I like analyst reports and I like getting as much as I can. I bookmarked Bert’s site, I look at Saul’s stuff, I scan reports for top mutual fund managers (best pick was from the 100b+ Fido Contrafund this year), and I often buy 100% of the non-banking and resource stocks mentioned by Canadian money manager Jason Doneville. In short, I’ll take it from anybody, but see #1.

I’m responsible for it - and I have to form my own conclusions. End of story.- just a different view.

P.S. Value Line for one is often free from your public library…so are a lot of other stuff…

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I LOVE analyst reports. I won’t look at ANY domestic stock without Value Line in hand - mainly for the presentation of numbers (though sometimes even they are buggy), but for many other reasons. I like boards like this one and I like newsletters and I like analyst reports and I like getting as much as I can. I bookmarked Bert’s site, I look at Saul’s stuff, I scan reports for top mutual fund managers (best pick was from the 100b+ Fido Contrafund this year), and I often buy 100% of the non-banking and resource stocks mentioned by Canadian money manager Jason Doneville. In short, I’ll take it from anybody, but see #1.

I heartily agree with “getting as much as I can”, in the way of analysis, info, etc. I believe that, the more you get, the better decision you can make for yourself.

btw- this is my philosophy for fantasy football, too. I always get as much info as I can before deciding who to play each week. (I’ve won my league’s championship 3 times in 5 years!)

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AZ5speedy,

I’ve long thought it takes very similar skill sets for successful investing and fantasy football! Just for investing its much higher stakes and the season never ends.

Matt
MasterCard (MA), Nestle (NSRGY), PayPal (PYPL), and Verizon (VZ) Ticker Guide
See all my holdings at http://my.fool.com/profile/CMFCochrane/info.aspx

“I’ve won my league’s championship 3 times in 5 years!”

Yaaay !

:slight_smile:

many sell-side reports focus on a couple things

Yes, generally. Often you see good, deep industry insights. But they are masked in industry speak and you have to unpack to understand what they mean. There is one analyst in WFC who outlined a tricky bankruptcy situation and the options that will play out. I think I had to read it 7 or 8 times to understand. The entire report was less than 2 pages and 12 months later it played out the way he laid it. But the important point is not the prediction rather he outlined the drivers.

I was not very confident of my analysis of the position but felt confident of his analysis so I took a small position ( <1%) and it was 3X return.

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With a large sample of analysts taking all possible positions on the spectrum, somebody is bound to be correct.

#6

No one I know posts their current positions (except Bear and me). The Motley Fool principals post whether they are long a stock or not, but you can’t tell whether they have just one share of it, or whether they have invested half the family assets in it.

Anyone with TMF or CMF in their name has to list all of their positions in their profile.

I’ve seen many posters over the years post their portfolios with percentages allotted to each.

I’m willing to do that when time allows.

My XIRR since 2005, not counting dividends, is currently around 14.5%.

Fool on,

mazske

All holdings are listed in my profile

Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Happy Holidays and Happy Kwanza to all

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Except when there are no analysts…my favorite type of stocks. They hold a conference call and there are no questions…No comments, no articles, no coverage, getting rarer these days.

sw

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