I have not seen it yet announced on the company blog, but an industry newsletter I subscribe to just sent out a brief notice. The app page on the apple store is Gist - Life Well Lived App - App Store
The company describes the app as “Gist is a social media platform for curious individuals who want real substance on their feed – practical, thoughtful content on the things that shape real life. No noise.”
Here is a Business Insider article about APP and Gist.
So with TikTok, Instagram, Substack, Youtube, X, Medium, Vimeo, Reels, Pinterest, Reddit, Threads, Blue Sky, Meta’s new Forums, Snapchat, Discord, Spotify podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Netflix, countless streaming services, personal websites and ten billion other places to share content, the world needs Gist to fill exactly which unmet need? How many people looking for media at this moment are unable to find literally everything ever made - blogs, posts, videos on every conceivable subject, plus 10b new things flooding in each day? Maybe App’s digital expertise and big data can carve out and fill a new space but at first glance this seems like a long shot at best and a distraction, a red flag on future growth prospects at worst. This has the whiff of Quibi and Qwikster all over it. If Gist makes it to the new year I’ll kiss Foroughi’s bum in Macy’s window and give him an hour to draw a crowd.
I doubt they’re looking for it to take over the world. Given how quickly they were able to spin it up (the job posting for the role only appeared ~2 months ago, after all), I think they are rather intending it to be a place they have complete control over to test tech. Any money they make off it is gravy. If by some chance it finds a niche, we’ll, it’s free money.
Hi Dan, I’ve not been paying close attention - it appears that you’ve returned to the board. Welcome back.
APP is my largest position. Foroughi has a knack for printing money. I doubt that he thinks Gist will suddenly overtake the social media segment. But, by your own comment, it’s a cluttered and very competitive landscape. If you think APP’s entry to this field is pure madness and tantamount to a waste of shareholder value, think again. Do some research on Adam and the history of AppLovin. This guy is no dummy, lured into some prospecting venture by the lure of future fortunes. Of course it’s a gamble. What business venture isn’t? But everything this guy does is measured (literally).
I’m confident that before a single line of code was cut a detailed roadmap with measurable mileposts was constructed. They know exactly what they want to accomplish and how they will know if they are on course. BTW, the goal may not necessarily be for Gist in and of itself to generate a lot of revenue. If Gist can generate a significant number of leads for the advertising business at breakeven it can be a worthwhile venture. If Gist can pirate users from FB, X and Reddit by a focus on quality content and trash removal (not too difficult IMO) it well might be profitable in its own right.
I wouldn’t be too quick to write it off. They C-suite at AppLovin is very intelligent. They do not squander resources on frivolous vanity projects.
Brittlerock - thank you for the welcome back. The key question I asked is what need will Gist serve for users? I get Foroughi is very smart, and no doubt has a plan and if it is successful it will be great for APP. I can even respect idea that he simply has earned the right to take a swing at this.
But this is from the site and something we can actually analyze …
Not just a feed. Your Social Stage.
Post your takes. Join live debates. Message friends. Discover your city. Gist is social media built around what actually matters to you.
Let’s break it down.
“Not just a feed. Your Social Stage.”
So people posting on other sites are just using a feed. But Gist will give them a stage. This is vague bordering on nonsensical. So people playing music, working out, cooking meals, traveling, etc. are not actually on “stage” performing?
Join Live Debates
People need another place to debate? We’re doing fine right here. I’d be more compelled to join Gist if that said “strike your big toe with a hammer.”
“Message friends”
This doesn’t even merit a response. Like… DM?
“Discover your city”
Again, doesn’t merit a response.
Really the whole thing comes down to this line, “built around what actually matters to you.” Of course, “gist” means “the main point.” So, the key word here is “actually.” This is a site for people who share content that “actually” matters to them. Clearly the implication is on other sites people are not really passionate about their content.
I’m just rattling off some names of people I’ve folllowed on various social media… Jocko Willink on leadership, Alex O’Connor and Joe Folley on philosophy, Rhonda Patrick on fitness, Scott Galloway on markets, a guy named Outlaw Bookseller on books … I should assume the issues these people have devoted their entire lives to don’t really matter to them?
This is an attempt to make money pretending to be a cause. It’s backwards.
Compare this to Axon, another stock having a down year. Bear just had Josh Isner, President of Axon on his excellent podcast with partner Drowsy. Isner talks about their commitment to public safety and how every product line they add must be backed by the rationale that they have every reason to win that space. Electric weapons, body cameras, drones, all of it directly relates to their mission of “protecting more lives in more places.”
Foroughi is very smart, proven. He built an incredibly successful company. He is handsome, articulate and has a winning smile. None of that changes the fact that Gist is a broken story. And yes my openness to the idea tanked over the course of writing this post. The only question here is how much money, time and resources this wastes. Best case scenario Foroughi realizes quickly he’s got another ShopHouse on his hands and mercy kills this digital monstrosity. If Jeffrey Katzenberg and Reed Hastings, two of the greatest minds in the history of media, could bungle Quibi and Qwikster Foroughi can fail too - and still be a great CEO.
BroadwayDan
All I can say is we will see. Look at the way Foroughi decided to market AppLovin as an advertising platform. . . He didn’t advertise it. He saw the cost of building a sales and marketing org would just be a long term drain on resources. You are right, the odds are definitely against success. But then how did TikTok sweep the social media landscape in the face of the longer and better established apps? Seemingly impossible, yet they succeeded (don’t fall back on the fact that had already penetrated the Chinese market where they also faced enormous competition, state supported, BTW against WeChat andothers). TikTok hasn’t replaced anything, but it has carved out a profitable space. I think Gist has a devent chance of doing the same.
@brittlerock TikTok initially was very different in the way that it democratized video creation, and it had a ton of unique features in that sense, plus a completely different UI. Then Meta copied it as they have every other competitor they’ve ever had, but it was too late especially with Meta’s tarnishing brand amongst young folks. I do think it’s important to differentiate in this space.
And there are plenty of opportunities for Gist to differentiate from the big social platforms and take a bite out of the market, but to @BroadwayDan’s point, nothing they are saying clearly differentiates them. If I were them, I’d take the best of Reddit and TikTok and combine them: non-algorithmic communities of all shapes & sizes (from Reddit) with a social native UI (from TikTok). Then I’d layer in more stringent content regulation. What you would have is a platform that speaks to people who want social media without all the ugly side-effects.
But as you’ve said…we shall see. It’s been 4 days and still in Alpha. Until one of us gets the invite, it’s hard to know from an App Store page.
Why would an investor hold it against a company for focusing on the bottom line? Most of the time there is the opposite scenario where a company is growing sales, and cannot figure out how to monetize their product.
A few statements from Saul stand out to me when discussing Cloudflare pricing awhile back. Paraphrasing him he said effectively, “I don’t want to invest in a charity. If I am looking to contribute to charity, that is a different objective”.
Should there be a requirement that a company has a great mission statement to make it a viable investment? My take is I see these altruistic company statements as corporate mumbo jumbo, because behind the scenes they are focused differently. Facebook says they “bring the world together”, but their platform serves considerably higher percentages of ads than other social media.
On the topic of ads, AppLovin built the most effective system for free to play games. Because it is more effective, the game developers get a higher return enabling them to produce more games and be more successful. The ads are a way to keep the games free to play. Sure, they might be annoying to deal with for the gamers but that is the trade off for the game being free.
The games are entertainment. They are not saving the world or pretending to do so. However, AppLovin’s bottom line profitability is absolutely unrivaled in software, making it a potentially strong investment candidate.
wpr -
I am not saying APP has to be altruistic or do good in the world. I’m saying they created a social media company called Gist, which implies it’s about getting to the heart of the matter at hand for posters.They are stating a cause - to create a place where people can share content that “actually” matters. Not me.
I’m saying that we already have countless places for people to post content that actually matters. Replace the word “cause” with “business case.” I’m saying that the business case makes no sense. If Foroughi was opening a plumbing agency in a town of 100 people and said he was bringing plumbing that actually matters his cause, or mission, or business case, would not make sense. And make Gist - and possibly APP here - a bad investment.
If a company has to expand into another business line, that has a non-starter rationale, their future may not be as bright for investors as it has been in the past. My post is entirely about investing not morality. And we’ve seen many companies that struggle more and more as market caps rise to 100B, 200B and beyond. Very few leap these hurdles.
Since Saul and altruism came up though, let’s recall that David Gardner, co-founder of the Fool invented the term “Rule Breaker Investing” and is a passionate “conscious capitalist” who believes that being good is good for business. Saul was heavily influenced by David and writes in the Knowledge Base,
"I want a company that does something special, a rule breaker, not a company that just makes a commodity product well."
APP has complex ways of monitoring behavior, strategically injecting ads into apps, (many of which are sub-chimpanzee level addictive games) to get these poor distracted chumps to buy more stuff as they fake farm, chase candy, throw flying chickens and whatever other nonsense is done on these games. Is this doing something special?
APP has been attacked by more hard-hitting short reports than any company ever to rise in popularity on this board. Bloomberg has reported SEC investigations of their data collection methods and the things alleged in short reports are not good to say the least. Surely those who rush to defend dear leader Foroughi are not biased by the profits he’s made investors. And are objective about the allegations.
I couldn’t find it in the knowledge base but I recall Saul saying he didn’t invest in gambling companies due the immoral, addictive, damaging nature of casinos. APP tills the manure of similar fields. No one tumbles into their grave thinking “if only I played more Cooking Madness on my phone.” They cry out in the agony of wasted lives that were stolen in part by the ingenious manipulation of Machiavellian tech bros.
Bottom line: Again, my point is not about morality. It’s about business. There is serious reason to doubt Gist. The only question here really is how important Gist is, ultimately, to future profits. If one thinks it’s important and will pull focus, lose money APP has a looming narrative headwind.
This is the key thing I’m predicting. Gist will flop, and if one thinks that matters, one should hedge their bets accordingly. If one things it is a low-risk, high possible reward play, fine. But to my knowledge we don’t know yet how much they are investing in it in terms of money or resources. It’s hard to imagine though that a company heading toward 200B can do anything small or it won’t move the needle. The question, really is, If the core business is so great and the future so bright why do they need Gist? Totally different thing than buying TikTok and being confident they could monetize it with great skill.
Broadway Dan
But to my knowledge we don’t know yet how much they are investing in it in terms of money or resources.
In reading through a lot of narrative in this thread, this sentence captures the essence of Gist at this point in time.
We have no idea how much capital or focus APP is puting on Gist at this time. What we do know is that APP has a CEO that is obsessed with keeping headcount and G&A costs down and that he has built this company to spin off cash like few companies before it.
The issue here seems to be that marketing and advertising is second cousin to Lucifer himself. I do not see it that way, but to each his own.
@Buffjan2 that’s one of the funniest lines I’ve read on this board hahaha! I work in advertising so I like your view.
But @BroadwayDan makes some good points. This move could be read two ways (and maybe more):
1 - If you can’t beat 'em, join em. To his point, the current app narrative sounds just like spin without a lot of meat on the bone. I don’t think that APP will be burning money chasing this, they don’t really have a track record of that. But this move could be seen as an admission that they can’t beat the social networks, and are foreseeing a big revenue slowdown. In this case, if Gist isn’t a unique offering with product market fit, it will not succeed and it could be trouble.
There is good advertising - honest, creative, on-point and bad advertising. Good advertising is Steve Jobs coming after Microsoft with his legendary 1984 ad. And “where’s the beef?” which was even more brilliant. Foroughi brags on conference calls about locking up grandma’s screen while she’s playing a relaxing game of Mah Jong for 30 to 60 seconds so he can force feed his ads. That’s not the second cousin of Lucifer, that’s his first cousin and probably also his sister. I laid out why I think Gist won’t work and admitted we don’t know if that will even matter. But of note, I see that they have an AI product that turns complex issues into comic strips to help people understand them. I originally laughed at that but now think maybe it could be helpful. I would put in the prompt “show man shouting into a crowd of people putting their fingers in their ears.”
Speaking of Beezlebub’s sister, here is an article on why the APP price popped today. Morgan Stanley has a nice piece on add conversion rates improving for APP thus driving up EBITDA and cash flow.
Good advertising is constantly improving conversion rates. Grandma is clicking through more often than she was last quarter.
But given how well Cloudflare stock has done since then, was Saul wrong? Having a Free Tier in a company’s offerings can be considered a marketing and adoption advantage. This works for Figma (at least until its AI scare), and works for Autodesk, and I’m sure dozens of other companies. It lets engineers easily do prototyping or demo work and then when they run into restrictions as they expand into real production adoption, they end up buying licenses.
That said, I have not opinion on how successful Gist might or might not be.
Dan, I’ve not fully moved my financial conversations to Reddit. I post there infrequently under the name Physical Engineer (Reddit generated handle - which, BTW immediately turned me off to the platform).
In any case, yes I concede that you have some good points and others (Lucifer’s sister? Really? And you say its all about investing - hmmm).
But ultimately you are suggesting that Gist is a vanity project or some similar venture that will do nothing but squander shareholder dollars. Where’s your evidence for that?
Forget about the lame promotional statements so far released by AppLovin. Has it occurred to you that those statements might just be part of their release strategy? Seriously, “Hey competition, nothing to worry about here. Nothing to see. Move on. Forget about it.”
I really don’t know what they are building and what they will ultimately put in the cybersphere, if anything. I do know that Foroughi has more closely guarded the value of AppLovin than virtually any other CEO I am aware of. Why would he squander that on some fruitless venture?
Answer that question if you can.
I really didn’t expect this announcement to spur so much discussion. We don’t know very much about their plans, short and long term, for Gist. I think we can say with certainty that they are very deliberate about their business, and they have had since the beginning a single minded focus on profitability (shareholder value) unlike any other company I have ever come across. We know they have wanted a social media app for some time; we know they have posted one (ONE!!!) position to lead the project; we know Adam has mentioned how much is possible these days with vibe coding (this was said in his interview during the discussion of the social media site); we know he said, in that same interview, that he saw a path within 5 years to 1T, and that he thought APP would have the same headcount then as they do now. All of that is music to my investor’s ears, and I’m more than willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
I think this conversation has run it’s course. We’re repeating ourselves. APP investors, fans of Foroughi, for GOOD REASON, believe in him, trust him, think the company is well run, costs are contained and he deserves a chance to build Gist as he sees fit. And again, I agree, we don’t even know what his investment is in this project.
I don’t know how to make it any clearer though that what he’s put out, on the site for Gist, is a patently absurd statement - that it’s content that “actually matters.” And as for the question “Why would he squander value on a fruitless venture?” because CEOs make mistakes all the time. Brittlerock you’re talking like a fan, not an investor with a critical eye. We all do this. I’m currently doing this with Nebius. The idea that Foroughi is head-faking the likes of Zuckerberg and Steve Huffman is so silly it aspires to being ludicrous. You say “I really don’t know what they are building” - they are telling you with great specificity exactly what they are building. And my comments are only about that thing which I critiqued line by line. That’s really all I have to say on it.
In all honesty, App investors, even fans, are probably right here on the company in the long run. It’s been a beast up to this point. And I wish you all great success. I just feel so sad in my heart for the poor grannies trying to play their games, to eek out a little joy in their final, precious moments, being locked out for ads. That’s all. Just putting some humanity into the story as Fools one time were wont to do. I shall say no more and welcome my paddling when Gist becomes the next super app.
Dan, I’m not a gamer. But I have a weather app that I like in which I frequently get a locked screen ad. Is it placed by APP? Probably. YouTube locks you into most ads for ~15 seconds. I wait for the “skip” button. The aforementioned weather app has a simple escape from the lock screen. I move to the bottom of the screen to bring up the Android controls and click on the home button. When I re-access the weather app, I am no longer locked out.
And yeah, I qualify in age as a ‘granny.’ If I can figure this out, how hard is it for others? I don’t know about iOS, I don’t have any Apple products. My wife does, but she isn’t a gamer either. She mostly access sights that are published in Mandarin. I really don’t know if she ever encounters locked screen, but I doubt it.
Me, too. Like a dog waiting for a biscuit.