Yes, although this thread is about the BBB and US EV subsidies. Doing away with subsidies slows sales. No surprise.
DB2
I’ll summarize:
The economics for EVs don’t look good and there is a global shift to EVs.
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This is factually untrue. Battery costs are coming down fast and EVs getting cheaper globally and in the US.
On the other hand, big oil subsidies continue and more wars and Trillions lost.
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I think allowing up to $10,000 interest on car loans might make up for the subsidies.
Most people finance new cars.
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What do you have in mind?
DB2
Tesla Y
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They have been, but the growth rate is still very high. On the order of 10%/year, IIRC. You don’t have to compound very long before the market becomes very large.
ICE vehicles will be around probably longer than any of us. But aside from the obvious exceptions EVs in general are superior to ICEs and the number of exceptions continues to decrease.
That aside, promoting EVs is good public policy for a host of reasons. That’s why other countries, notably China are pushing forward so hard in this area. The EV rebate was ended for one reason and one reason only: government corruption.
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Sure, and that’s why Sweden, Germany and New Zealand ended their EV subsidy programs. China ended its direct subsidies for EV purchases at the end of 2022.
DB2
The deduction applies to any car financed. It isn’t specific to EVs, or 6000lb ICE SUVs, so it’s a wash. The outcome is the same as if there was no EV subsidies, and no subsidies to encourage people to go farther in debt.
Steve
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Yeah, I knew that, but I still think there is a market for EVs and they tend to be more expensive than ICE. So, in that sense it’s a replacement. It’s also every year which is better than a one-time deal.
But it certainly encourages people to go further into debt - it’s a tax deduction.
So, it’s an incentive to buy an EV, vs a comparable ICE vehicle, because the EV costs more? Years ago, I was telling a coworker how I was pushing to get my mortgage paid off. She said “and lose the tax deduction?”. I said “paying the bank a dollar in interest, to save 25 cents in tax, is dumb”.
Or, instead of an EV, people could by an ICE vehicle, that has even more gimmicks in it, for the same money.
Steve
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The problem is oil subsidies and continued $Trillions spending on arms and wars in middle east. For bonus points, these emissions create pollution and cause health issues.
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Sweden is something like 35% of new car sales are EV. Germany is something like 25%. The subsidies “worked” and aren’t necessary anymore. The US, on the other hand is under 8%, so it probably still needs subsidies for a while longer (yet they are going away this year - bad policy).
Most people get no benefit at all from the mortgage interest deduction because of the high standard deduction (I’ve explained the numbers here many times over the years). So it’s even dumber than dumb to say silly things like "and lose the tax deduction?”
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Ayup. For the three or four years I had that mortgage, only about half of what I paid in interest made a difference vs the standard deduction.
Steve
I STILL have a mortgage, a very small one, and I think it is ending next year. The rate is 4%, so I figured I could do better than investing the money myself. Heck, even treasury bills do better than that lately (though not after taxes).
But I haven’t taken a mortgage deduction or a property tax deduction (or any of the schedule A deductions) in many years. Certainly not since 2017, and maybe also not before that.
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This will not age well but at least it will disrupt what has become of the Republican party.
Thinking back to the '60s, the only time we ever financed any car/truck. Lesson learned, they had an early payoff fee! Never went that route again, either bought used, leased, or if new, paid cash, done… This last one, the RAV4 Hybrid, didn’t qualify for any rebates, incentives, so just write the check n done…
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The reason it “made sense” was the Elon said on more than one occasion that if Kamala won he was going to prison. So the question to ask is, why did Elon think he would go to prison? What was he doing? (answer is partially given by which agencies Elon went after to gut them, as part of “fighting fraud”).
So both of them were trying to avoid prison. It’s just that the guy with actual, real power is actively trying to destroy Elon’s main company.
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I don’t know if the posse is actively trying to destroy Tesla, rather than Tesla simply being collateral damage, in their mission to aid and comfort big oil. According to Mr Google, Tesla booked a net profit of $7.13B last year, including $2.76B of revenue from selling fuel economy and regulatory credits to other automakers. With the enforcement mechanism for fuel economy regs repealed by the BBB, seems that $2.76B of free money is going to evaporate, on top of the presumed drop in sales from the EV incentives going away. But, as I said, Tesla is collateral damage, because the agenda is to push everyone into a huge, V8 powered, gas hog, like we saw in the 70s, for the benefit of big oil.
Steve
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The carbon credits come from the states (as well as the EU and China). IIRC, California requires a certain percentage of vehicles sold in the state be zero emission. If that is not met then a quarterly payment is due. Do you expect California to change its rules?
DB2