Yeah there are not enough PCPs to go around. Without a referral you do not see a specialist.
Great point, those folks are not on any waiting lists even if they are fully insured.
Another reason to get care outside of the US. In fact the biggest reason.
Not exactly correct. Self referral to a specialist has been common practice here in the USâŚand still is, depending upon ones insurance company dictates. The problem with this is that itâs not always that easy to determine which specialist is the appropriate one to choose. Dead easy if you have bunions, say, or severe acne but what if you have a sudden onset of subtle or non-specific symptoms. A vague bellyache or general malaise or intermittent headaches/vertigo etc. How would someone in this situation decide who to see either in the US or overseas?
True but like Swiss Cheese full of holes.
The people on the advantage plans who have some money go to Mexico if the co pay for a major surgery is more than a trip to get it all done in Mexico.
It may be besides my point altogether but getting the referral can be too expensive.
The worst self medicator are those with cancer who read bogus stuff and head south.
That would be over 1000 miles each way (I am in MNâabout 200+ miles from Canada).
But such a bargain, apparently, if you need a major surgery. Mind you, if that major surgery happened to require follow up of any degreeâŚextended over a few weeks or months, I fancy that might eat into the savings.
Even my lapiplasty (which is as major a surgical procedure as I care to experience, TYVM) required a series of follow-up up visitsâŚpost op check, suture removals, radiographs and assessment for PT, plus the PTâŚI reckon itâd be cheaper to pay the full cost of surgery at the orthopedic centre right here in town.
I guess thatâs why I donât know too many Americans whoâve flocked to Mexico for anything other than face lifts/skin rejuvenation/dental makeovers and whatnot.
That depends. I do not have the time to look up the numbers. While many folks retire part of the time to Florida a lot of people retire to places like Costa Rica part time or full time. Those folks do not wait in line for any of it.
BTW the Americans who go to Mexico still make up 1.2 million people.
I personally know two people who went abroad for medical care.
Went to Thailand for dental crown work. Required two visits, one to implant something, then 6 or 7 weeks later to install the crown. Cost in USA was about $10k, cost in Thailand was $1200, and he flew there using airline points. He said he was VERY impressed by the cleanliness and professionalism at the facility.
Went to Germany for installation of a prosthetic vertebrae. The procedure wasnât approved yet by the FDA, so couldnât be done in the USA. When he got back, he showed us a video of how they do the procedure and it is incredible. They open you up at the bellybutton, then move all the organs aside and insert a tool from front all the way to the back, they drill and vacuum out parts of the bad vertebrae, and then insert a metal one with rough areas to eventually adhere (much like prosthetic hip joints do), then they slowly allow it to expand using a spring and a rotating bar through the tool, then they detach the tool from the device and remove it. I suppose they move the organs back and then close up the incision at the front. He said that the facility was a hospital+hotel/rehab center all in one. They had him in the pool swimming the afternoon after his morning surgery! Then they had in in the pool and other rehab each day for 7 days and then released him. Cost $40k plus flights. When he got back, he argued for a few months with the insurance company and eventually they paid for half the cost.
That was last year. No relief this year.
This year, Canadian patients faced a median wait of 27.7 weeks for medically necessary treatment from a specialist after being referred by a general practitioner. Thatâs over six monthsâthe longest ever recorded. Itâs a slight increase from last yearâs median waitâand a 198% increase from the 9.3-week median wait that patients faced in 1993, the year that Fraser began tracking wait times.
DB2
How long is the wait for surgery in USA?
The mean waiting time for surgery was 62.3 (SD 75.4) days, with 95% of patients waiting 189 days or less. On average, the least deprived quintile waited longest (mean 64.5 days, SD 78.5), and wait times decreased with each quintile (mean of most deprived group 60.7 days, SD 73.1) (Table 1).Apr 29, 2022
Surgical wait times and socioeconomic status in a public healthcare system: a retrospective analysis | BMC Health Services Research | Full Text)%20(Table%201).
@DrBob2 unfortunately for you Canada probably wonât take you.
Seriously you have a point Canadaâs 194 days is greater than our 189 days.
The reason for the backlog right now we are in the wake of covid. People were not treated for cancer and heart troubles during the height of the pandemic.
Good question. Do you have some comparison data? The 189 days you quote is for Canada from 2006-15 (and it has gotten worse since then).
Back in 2005 Lasser et al. found that â3.5% of Canadians had unmet needs because of waiting times (vs less than 1% of US residents).â
https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.2004.059402
DB2
Hold on a few seconds.
I had searched for US data and been given CA data as well.
adding
What country has the shortest wait time for healthcare?
According to a report carried out by the Consumer Choice Center in 2023, the United States had the longest average wait for a primary physician appointment at almost three weeks. On the other hand, those in Switzerland only had to wait around two days for an appointment.Jul 3, 2023
Healthcare waiting times for appointments worldwide 2023 | Statista.
It is much easier to see a specialist in the US.
As expected, waiting times varied by practice, and ranged from a low of 42 days to a high of 63 days. Referrals categorized as âpriorityâ had a shorter median wait than regular referrals (28 days vs. 55 days).
What did you find for surgery or for treatment from a specialist, since those were the earlier discussion topics?
DB2
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Expect Americans to have worse outcomes without the primary care.
As expected a dramatic difference. Americans die much younger. Probably more wasteful expensive deaths.
What is the life expectancy of Canadians vs Americans?
Average life expectancy for a newborn in the U.S. was 78.8 years, well below neighboring Canada (82.3 years) and nearly all other high-income countries. These rates donât reflect the impact of COVID-19, which has significantly reduced life expectancy in the U.S. and other countries.Aug 11, 2022
Percent waiting more than a month for a specialist:
Canada 61% Norway 61% Sweden 52% New Zealand 48% UK 41% Australia 39% France 36% US 27% Germany 25% Netherlands 25% Switzerland 23%
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/health-care-wait-times-by-country
DB2
The way Americans are dying we do not need specialists either. We get ourselves out of the way faster than anyone else.
Do you want results?
I get the feeling in these conversations you want to gloat over American failures.
Luminaries like Sean Hannity have been bellowing about the âwait timeâ in Canada for years. Yet, what was Timâs wait time for his gall bladder thing, in Halifax? A few hours? The long waits are for non-emergency, non-life-threatening cases. For those who never saw the âMarigold Hotelâ, Maggie Smithâs character went to India for a shorter wait time for her hip replacement than she could get from UK National Health. A bum hip can be inconvenient, but it is not immediately life threatening, unless you need to run out of a burning building.
Steve
Not me. Talk to those who keep bringing up âshiny-landâ.
DB2
Took me 4 months to see my GP, 2 weeks for a cardiologist. Our insurance charges us $50 for a specialist visit, nothing for the annual GP. Either way, pretty darned affordable.
IP
I had to wait a month for a PCP appt. Specialists are out 3-6 months or more. I do most of it (getting referrals, etc) via e-mail with my new PCP. I get a new one every three years (new grads doing their residencies). So I make sure to train them properly.
I guess the question is: Which is more important to you: The wait time or the outcome? By most metrics, Canadians have measurably better health care outcomes than Americans. They also pay much, much less than we do.
So if short wait times are more important to you than cost or outcomes, then American health care is the way to go.
As a guess, Iâd say for most people low cost and better outcomes is more important than wait times. But thatâs just a guess.