And look, Citron didn’t wait until after their “report” to take their short position. And they didn’t wait until it had dropped 20% from its high to take their short. They saw it shoot up 25% in a day, and said “Let’s short this!”
The fact that they issued their report means they are done selling and ready to buy…duh! (If not they’d be awfully stupid.) So they can notch this up as another successful short: they’ve been selling since the mid-high $60 range, and bought back today at $50 or so, that’s a successful trade. But it has nothing to do with the value of the company.
Citron on Tesla - wrong twice. Last time almost exactly 200 points lower than TSLA is today . That "185 range " was near the low . One could hope he still owns his shorts but no doubt he covered long ago.
Saul has it right , I suspect Citron is just using the public most of the time.
Both can be right, use FUD to drive down the price for a week, cover your shorts, the stock goes back up to new highs…Citron wins, longer term longs win, the losers are the one selling to Citron
I used the last Citron report as a signal to buy more TSLA. I have no opinion about UBNT, other than that there are better stocks to buy regardless of this Citron report. Why settle for second string performers when the first string tech stocks are making new highs?
Prior to this report UBNT had gone nowhere in 2017.
He issued a “report” and called for a drop to $130/share sometime around June…after having called for something like $90/share back in December, if I recall correctly…thinking it was December 28th or shortly after maybe, right after a big jump up to just under $120/share on the day I was skiing out in Utah.
I sold cash covered short term puts. If they are exercised, I buy UBNT at a bargain price. If they expire, I’ve made a handsome return in under a month. Sounds like a win-win. BTW, I rarely trade options, but this one seemed too good to pass up.
Well, unless it’s a fraud in some way, shape or form.
Or the market decides to hate UBNT for no adequately explained reason. Or it just gets re-valued lower. Or they miss their numbers next quarter.
The market-makers rarely give away free money. You are taking substantial risk and the vast majority of investors should never, ever sell put options. See VRX for more details.
We were all wondering how Ubiquiti could have lost the entire 25% they gained on their extraordinary results and guidance. Well, evidently Citron and friends have been selling short and pushing the price down.
Short interest has gone down substantially [30%] since before earnings.
By this logic, the share price should have gone up 25%, not down.
“…the vast majority of investors should never, ever sell put options.”
It depends so much on the underlying stock. Selling puts on Berkshire Hathaway is way different from selling puts on Valeant. It also helps not to sell puts that expire on or shortly after the earnings report day. And make sure you don’t mind owning the stock.
You are taking substantial risk and the vast majority of investors should never, ever sell put options.
A highly reputable short seller comes out and declares the company is fraud and goes to TV and repeats the claim. Cramer comes to the show and essentially didn’t dispute the claim.
The CEO comes out with a lame tweet saying he is too busy working and don’t have time to respond to the allegations. Selling a put to pick “free money” is trying to pick pennies in front of a road roller that is moving at 60 MPH.
Sure, UBNT runs some risk by doing business in so many different countries and they may even do business with some companies that wouldn’t be as “kempt” as the companies most of us think of. However, if those companies continue to pay UBNT for their goods, then all is fine.
The company hasn’t shown problems in assigning credit to their customers yet although I will say their DSO have increased. But that is because they are dealing with higher volume clients who have better credit and are demanding better terms. At these margins, UBNT doesn’t have any problems with cash flow.
This short attack is a complete farce. Note that I’m not saying it is illegal or shouldn’t be done. It is just a farce designed to make short term money. Good for them. I hold and will be buying a bit more unless the price rises quickly.
you think shorts issue their reports or news to drive down the price before they sell their position???
Everyone has their objectives/ motives. The long articles that are published 1000 to 1 also with an objective to drive the share price higher. When was the last time anyone questioned WEB, that he is not disclosing his purchases beforehand? If you are willing to overlook the motives of someone going long and focus only on the motives of someone short, I think you are looking at it incorrectly.
What you should focus whether long or short is the point they are raising. Just because someone is long they are not a saint or someone short they are scamsters. Both are investors trying to make money.
As an extreme example, Saul here doesn’t tell before he buys, rather he posts his actions often after the fact. If you apply that logic Saul is the biggest fraud. We both know that is absurd and saul has nothing but honest intentions in sharing his thoughts, opinions.
Saul here doesn’t tell before he buys, rather he posts his actions often after the fact. If you apply that logic Saul is the biggest fraud. We both know that is absurd and saul has nothing but honest intentions in sharing his thoughts, opinions.
Hi Kingran, I’ve made it very clear that the primary reason that I usually don’t disclose my positions until the end of the month, is that my primary responsibility is to myself and my family. This is a free board and I offer my thoughts to try to help people do well in the market. Sometimes (fairly often) I make mistakes. If you’re not happy with how I do things, or you think I have ulterior motives, you are free to ignore everything I write or recommend.
Best,
Saul
And Kingran, as far as relevance to Citron, if I am dealing with a huge company (Nividia for example), I don’t worry about talking about a position while I’m getting in to it, because the few hundred people who may use this board won’t move that market up before I can buy the rest of my position, but if I’m taking a position in a small company (Teladoc for instance), I wait until I have my full position, or close to, because I certainly don’t want to drive my buying price higher.
Of course Citron did the same thing! They took their full short position before they broadcast to the whole world, not just to a few hundred people, that they were short a relatively small company where they knew their announcement would move the price down temporarily. If they were still selling why would they want to push their selling price lower? Why would they want to push the price down further unless they were ready to buy? If they were still selling they’d keep their mouths shut about what they were doing. It seems pretty straightforward and obvious to me.
NO I don’t. I thought I was very clear about it when I said… “We both know that is absurd and saul has nothing but honest intentions in sharing his thoughts, opinions”
you are free to ignore everything I write or recommend.
I don’t make my investments based on what is discussed on this board. Except for UBNT I don’t think I own anything else that is discussed in this board. And most certainly I don’t make my investments because you or anyone made a post. While you have a great success, power to you, your style is vastly different than mine. I like REIT’s, stable large-cap companies, and some special situations.