Crypto - Read Your Terms & Conditions

The judge managing the bankruptcy case of currency lender firm Celsius has ruled the assets in the accounts of Celsius customers don’t actually belong to those customers. They belong to Celsius. Why? Because those are the exact terms and conditions the customers accepted online when they created their accounts and deposited their money, which has now become “other people’s money.” The decision is gigantic – over $4.2 billion dollars are involved in the customer accounts.

Again, the writing SHOULD have been on the wall for these “customers.” A lending institution that figured out how to return you 20% interest? That means THEY have to be earning MORE than 20% from THEIR borrowers to be making money. In an economy where 2-5 percent interest rates are the norm and inflation is 6-8 percent.

Just another reminder that if you want to be all “stick it to the man” and anti-regulation about the economy and your finances, you better spend some serious time reading the fine print before clicking Accept and you better have a damn good idea of the other “man” that you’re dealing with. Believe it or not, there are a lot of people out there who are worse than your traditional central banker.



How many people actually read the small print of the contracts they sign? Have you read your broker’s?

(Who ticked off a car salesman by reading the entire sales contract and insisting that changes should be made - good entertainment for a rainy day :slight_smile: )


How about run a ChatGPT on any “read the fine print,” … get a summary, in 4th grader language?
Will legalese as a way to obfuscate be thwarted?


did you end up buying the car? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


Totally agree with your ideas on sound money lending.

The twist in this plot was even worse. I know the story has at least brushed by you.

The idea was spot loans to make transactions work very briefly between different entities using crypto. That was why the interest rates were high. The returns were supposed to be fantastic.

All that glitters is not gold.

Funny story on that. I was actually leasing two luxury cars and the salesman and I were separated by $5 a month and neither of us would budge. I asked him if he had a coin. He said that his manager absolutely wouldn’t allow the price I asked and he wasn’t about to gamble on it. I answered that he didn’t understand the proposition. If he won, I would pay the $5 a month, but if I won I would buy the two cars from another dealer. He got the sales manager who showed up red-faced and was livid when I explained my offer. He said (as if he was eating glass), “OK, you gotta deal, but don’t ever pull a stunt like that here again”. (I thought to myself, sure, not till the next time I buy a car or two :slight_smile: ). The “reading of the contract” was afterwards. When asked why I was reading it - no one ever reads it, I was assured, I just smiled and said that I never signed a contract without reading it in full (neglecting to mention that, in my business, it was not unusual for contracts to run hundreds of pages and only a fool would sign one unread).

(And yes, I bought/leased the cars)


I had a friend locally about 4 decades ago. The town avoids him. He would not read anything. But he’d take that sort of time to deal with the salesperson. Then he would not buy anything.

The entire town jokes about avoiding him. It is pathetic.

What you did was very cool.

I was raise messing with car salesmen. It is not like they are not messing a lot more with the rest of us.

When car dealers sell, the contest is generally asymmetrical. They attend sales training courses and sell cars on a daily basis using the formula sales techniques they have been trained to follow. They prey, on the other hand, is buying what is likely the second most expensive item (after their house) that they are likely to own in their life and their practice is participating in these negotiations is once every few years.

I wasn’t the typical car buyer as I had taken the time to study a number of sales courses (published by firms like IBM and Xerox) and negotiated deals worth far more than a car on a daily basis. Whenever I had to buy a vehicle, which happened a couple of times a year in my business, I got a kick out of pushing them off-script and making them as uncomfortable as possible while making sure that I was getting the best deal possible. It was one of those small pleasures in life :slight_smile:



Sounds like a great wonderful and perverse all in sort of fun.

Somehow I am not envious. I’d be very entertained watching this…and the longer it took the more I’d enjoy the day.

I can’t stand dealing with car dealers. So for my last few cars I simply declined to deal with them. I purchased 1 car on an associated corporate program (real mfg cost + 500 exactly), purchased 3 cars from Carmax, sold 2 cars to them, and purchased 1 car from Tesla. No negotiating at all, the price is the price is the price.

So the last time I had to negotiate a car price was in 2004, and I only negotiated via email with 4 dealers, I refused to have any phone calls. In the end, the best price was from a dealer about 200 miles away, the dealer sent all the details in email. My wife and I drove there, I purchased the vehicle (a quite hard to get vehicle at the time) at exactly the price stated in the email. A month later I receive a ~$90 check in the mail from the dealer … seems that the registration fee was lower than they thought it would be, so they refunded the difference. How many people ever GET a check from the dealer?!???