California Envy is weird. If they were a sovereign nation they would still have the fifth highest gdp in the world behind Germany and ahead of India,
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First, get your facts straight.
Send a letter to the Los Angeles Times. And one to Columbia’s School of Journalism where Summer Lin went to school.
DB2
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Dear DB2,
Sorry. That was a touch rude, I read your quote out of context.
California bashing just gets old, it goes on all the time.
I really shouldn’t care
But same said, sorry to be rude.
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But same said, sorry to be rude.
No problem, although politeness is a quality that is often undervalued in this day and age.
As for California, the underlying (and well known) problem is the cost of housing. The state has said that there is a 2-3 million unit shortfall.
https://lhc.ca.gov/report/california-housing-building-more-a…
This shortfall puts the middle class in a squeeze, forces people to live in more distant places, increases air pollution, increases racial and class inequity, makes it difficult for young people to get established et cetera.
DB2
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On the other hand I would offer Texas severance pay if they got serious about seceding.
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And California has something else important, being "the place where it happens for all manner of tech, agro, media, arts…
My nephews can live whereever they want. One lives in Vermont because he adores the outdoors and skiing. The others all live in California, which in addition to all manner of other goodies (surf city, wines, healthy sexy population,…) provides a climate where people meet in bars after work to eagerly and excitedly talk about work. Think of that.
Weirdos.
david fb
This shortfall puts the middle class in a squeeze, forces people to live in more distant places, increases air pollution, increases racial and class inequity, makes it difficult for young people to get established et cetera.
Air quality was much more of a problem in the 60s and 70s, today California has the lowest carbon dioxide emissions per capita in the United States
https://solarpower.guide/solar-energy-insights/infographics/…
As far as “racial and class inequity,” that ship sailed long ago. In California, racial equality is more even than anywhere in the South. I read that Africa Americans in Oakland CA have highest median income in the United States.
Not able to verify that.
The high cost of living and taxes are the continuing problem.
I don’t like the taxes
My daughters have to work hard to keep up with the cost of living here, I don’t like either.
…but housing was well-above the national average my whole adult life, mortgage rates were 12%, it’s never been easy in California.
If people want to move to Texas, I understand that, and good for them.
The California that I experience is awesome, and I live all over the United States.
From the commission report on California housing:
“California needs an additional 1.8 million to 3.5 million homes to adequately house its population. The Department of Housing and Community Development called for the construction of 180,000 new units annually between 2015 and 2025 to close the gap. Instead, the state has averaged around 80,000 new units per year”
“The consequences are devastating. California’s housing shortage has plunged many families into poverty that otherwise wouldn’t be. California’s poverty rate, at 11%, is on par with the national average when cost of living is not taken into consideration. When it is, California’s poverty rate skyrockets to 17.2% – the highest in the nation.”
“The housing crisis results in Californians living farther away from their jobs, resulting in longer commutes with more greenhouse gas emissions, and increased building in areas prone to wildfire and other natural disasters.”
“It has public health implications by forcing Californians to live in more crowded conditions and impacting the mental health of Californians vulnerable to losing their home. Further, housing insecurity contributes to feelings of hopelessness and social conflict.”
DB2
From the 2018 report on California housing:
www.hcd.ca.gov/policy-research/plans-reports/docs/sha_final_…
- Lack of supply and rising costs are compounding growing inequality and limiting advancement opportunities for younger Californians.
- Continued sprawl will decrease affordability and quality of life while increasing transportation costs.
- Of California’s almost 6 million renter households, more than 3 million households, pay more than 30 percent of their income toward rent, and nearly 30% — more than 1.7 million households — pay more than 50% of their income toward rent.
- Overall homeownership rates are at their lowest since the 1940s.
- For California’s vulnerable populations, discrimination and inadequate accommodations for people with disabilities are worsening housing cost and affordability challenges.
DB2
Agree that small CA population decline vs. National Avg growth far from mass “exodus.” Agree to, CA has some of the best weather conditions in the World.
Can anyone shed light on the demographic population picture of whose leaving vs. those entering CA.
GLTA Fools!
paul
Can anyone shed light on the demographic population picture of whose leaving vs. those entering CA.
Here ya go, courtesy of the IRS:
SOI Tax Stats - Migration Data
www.irs.gov/statistics/soi-tax-stats-migration-data
Click on a state map:
www.irs.gov/statistics/soi-tax-stats-migration-data-2018-201…
DB2
Can anyone shed light on the demographic population picture of whose leaving vs. those entering CA.
What little info I have on the subject suggests (but ONLY suggests - I’m claiming precisely zero scientific rigor here, folks!) that the people leaving look quite a lot like the people arriving.
When my sister was in her mid to late 20s, she and her then-husband spent several years in the San Diego area. They knew quite a number of people of similar age. Only one person they knew was a native Californian, and that person was trying to arrange a move to another state.
Can anyone shed light on the demographic population picture of whose leaving vs. those entering CA.
This topic comes up from time to time on this board, so I looked into it a while back. Turns out those immigrating to Califoria tend to be high income/high skilled, and those leaving tend to be low income/low skilled.
Which makes sense. California is expensive, so you’re not likely to move there unless you’ve got a good job.
https://www.ppic.org/blog/whos-leaving-california-and-whos-m…
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“California needs an additional 1.8 million to 3.5 million homes to adequately house its population. The Department of Housing and Community Development called for the construction of 180,000 new units annually between 2015 and 2025 to close the gap. Instead, the state has averaged around 80,000 new units per year”
True, and if you take a quick look at my posts, you’ll see that I have said this over and over and over. Inflation is not the problem, the problem is supply. The Fed’s action curbing inflation will hurt those at the bottom most; unemployment, wage stagnation, loan rate putting first time buyers out of the market all to appease the Fed’s desire to cap wage inflation.
I have posted this before:
https://www.worldpropertyjournal.com/real-estate-news/united…
Rising home prices and interest rates are taking a terrible toll on housing affordability, with 87.5 million households – or roughly 69% of all U.S. households – unable to afford a new median-priced home.
"The housing affordability crisis is driven by one factor: as a nation, we have failed to produce enough housing to keep up with demand.
(National Association of Home Builders chairman Jerry Konter before the House Ways and Means Committee Hearing July 2022)
California has created affordable housing bills to help first time buyers. CalHFA offers several options for down payment; a 3.5% down payment allows first time buyers a chance to get into a house, but up to an amount of $856,600 with a 721 credit score. That comes with a big PMI, and the new loan rates that are double what they were from last year.
I have said over and over that the Fed’s current policy will create massive demand for rental properties and end the hope of home ownership.
Turns out those immigrating to Califoria tend to be high income/high skilled, and those leaving tend to be low income/low skilled.
Sort of, but not really. If nothing else, that division leaves out the middle income group. According to the IRS data I linked upthread, the average AGI (adjusted gross income) of those leaving in 2018-19 was $93K. Gross incomes would be larger. Here’s the distribution; low income would be the first two brackets.
AGI Percent
<$10K 6%
$10-25K 17%
$25-50K 25%
$50-75K 15%
$75-100K 10%
$100-200K 17%
>$200K 9%
DB2
Air quality was much more of a problem in the 60s and 70s, today California has the lowest carbon dioxide emissions per capita in the United States.
The problem today is that air quality has become a singular discussion centered around climate change and carbon dioxide emissions. Your post is a demonstration of that as it looks just at carbon dioxide emissions. Carbon dioxide isn’t even a pollutant at the time the Clean Air Act Amendments of 1990 were passed. It was added through a court decision. The criteria pollutants under the Act are ground level ozone, particulates, nitrogen oxides, sulfur dioxide, carbon monoxide and lead.
When it comes to California, they have some of the worst air in the country with regards to the criteria pollutants. Here is a map of the US.
https://www3.epa.gov/airquality/greenbook/mapnpoll.html
California may have NC beat on carbon dioxide emissions but we don’t have one nonattainment area in the state.
PSU
When it comes to California, they have some of the worst air in the country with regards to the criteria pollutants. Here is a map of the US.
Point well-taken.
I’m not sure of the date to your EPA map.
Current Carbon Monoxide in two cities (2022)
Raleigh-Durham, NC & Charlotte, NC (Moderate <= 12.7ppm - Maintenance)
Are rated the same as
San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose, CA (Moderate <= 12.7ppm - Maintenance)
https://www3.epa.gov/airquality/greenbook/cbtc.html
When measuring daily air quality for the week Winston-Salem rated poor (unhealthy to long exposure)
https://www.accuweather.com/en/us/winston-salem/27101/air-qu…
NC air quality poor
San Francisco Bay Area rated Fair
https://www.accuweather.com/en/us/san-francisco/94103/air-qu…
Southern California’s Great Basin region has always had air quality issues. California has led the nation in reducing auto emissions, you may remember that the previous administration to California to court to force the state to reduce standards.
California may have NC beat on carbon dioxide emissions but we don’t have one nonattainment area in the state.
I don’t know about those measurements, but I take your word for it. Again, back to the process of comparing ourselves to California. I don’t know why so many non-Californians are obsessed with how their state compares to California.
Point well-taken.
I’m not sure of the date to your EPA map.
Current Carbon Monoxide in two cities (2022)
Raleigh-Durham, NC & Charlotte, NC (Moderate <= 12.7ppm - Maintenance)
Are rated the same as
San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose, CA (Moderate <= 12.7ppm - Maintenance)
There have been no nonattainment areas for CO since 2010. I’m not sure why you are even highlighting this pollutant. The part that reads (moderate <=12.7 ppm - Maintenance) is the classification of the metropolitan area at the time of redesignation from nonattainment to attainment.
San Francisco Bay Area rated Fair
https://www.accuweather.com/en/us/san-francisco/94103/air-qu……
I don’t go to commercial sources of information that are just repackaging data from the entities that gathered the data. For any pollutant in NC, I would go to https://airquality.climate.ncsu.edu/air/
This website provides the real-time data from NC’s monitoring network run by their air quality agency.
For ozone, I know the person who developed the ozone design value predictor tool. This tool gathers the data from states across the nation to determine the attainment status of areas across the US. It’s a tool that has won national awards.
https://airquality.climate.ncsu.edu/dv/
I don’t know about those measurements, but I take your word for it.
Why do you even need to take my word for it even though I have 30 years of air quality engineering experience. Those numbers published by EPA are reported to EPA from each state. Each state has monitoring networks that have QAPPs approved by the EPA.
Again, back to the process of comparing ourselves to California. I don’t know why so many non-Californians are obsessed with how their state compares to California.
Now that is a funny statement. I was replying to you when you were comparing California to the rest of the country. I don’t know why so many Californians are obsessed with how their state compares to the other 49 states.
PSU
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There have been no nonattainment areas for CO since 2010. I’m not sure why you are even highlighting this pollutant. The part that reads (moderate <=12.7 ppm - Maintenance) is the classification of the metropolitan area at the time of redesignation from nonattainment to attainment.
So, you’re saying that San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose, CA has also been redesignation from nonattainment to attainment? That’s confusing, but the EPA source that cites Raleigh-Durham, NC & Charlotte, NC (Moderate <= 12.7ppm - Maintenance)
Are rated the same as
San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose, CA (Moderate <= 12.7ppm - Maintenance)
Says… Data is current as of July 31, 2022
It clearly says… Status Nonattainment and Maintenance Areas
I was replying to you when you were comparing California to the rest of the country.
And… I was replying to the up-thread where DRB stated that California home prices create a great amount of car emissions due to the need to commute.
Look, not to get polemic about it, but this OP was about “Great California Exodus & the High Cost of Housing.” The comment was made that car emissions have greatly increased in California due to the high cost of housing.
If you read above, you’ll see that I was only try to explain that emission in ("The Great Basin Region especially) California for cars was far worse in the 70s when housing was affordable. I could care less how other states compare to California; I live in seven states.
Further, your EPA map seems to lack some credibility. for example, Gary In doesn’t show up in any of the map for air quality esp. sulfur dioxide. Have you been to Gary In? The EPA map shows that the air quality in Lake Tahoe is worse than Gary In.
And further, it’s interesting how all the air bad air quality immediately disappears right at the border of Nevada. Lake Tahoe somehow has a Level 3 Nonattainment, and Carson City-Genoa (20min away) is zero. Or, Imperial Valley is a serious all 6 pollutants (I assume a lot of this is Agriculture) and then right at the border of Nevada and Arizona it goes to zero when the prevailing air direction is West to East all most 100% of the time.
So, please understand, I think NC is a wonderful place; I’ve been to your Blue Ridge Mountains. I have a friend who just bought a place in Asheville, and wants me to come visit. I hear there are some great places for mountain biking. As for the EPA air quality information metrics today, I’d much rather be here at my place in Lake Tahoe than Gary, Indiana even though the EPA is telling me that Gary, Indiana is cleaner.
God Bless North Carolina and your many clean places.
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On the other hand I would offer Texas severance pay if they got serious about seceding.
Is this the latest form of penis envy*?*
I thought this was the Macro Economic Trends and Risks Board.
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