but since you can make 10,000 perfectly identical copies, is it really scarce?
Wouldn’t that be the case with any lithograph )numbered, or not)?
Jeff
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NFT has the illusion of scarcity since someone lays claim to the title of the original, but since you can make 10,000 perfectly identical copies, is it really scarce? 1,000,000?
Goofy,
Usually you are one of my heroes on here but frankly you do not comprehend any of this properly.
I can make billions of digital copies of Guernica. Or whatever else.
The NFT is a contract not the actual art or the actual digital copy. Trading the contract is the value, but artistic representation makes the contract non fungible. Digital scarcity is in the contract. Civil case and even possible criminal cases of fraud can arise if there is cheating etc…just like in the hard copy world in many ways.
There is a security problem as I enter this world of NFTs. The security problem is not the NFTs. As I produce animations I need to market them to sell them. If I tweet them to gain an audience someone or even a bot can mint an NFT before I do. It is a civil court case in the making and most definitely a DMCA or take down notice. I can win that but the hassles are a pain and take time which is costly.
The first line of defense is to register my animations with the USCO. I called them and can group register unpublished animations ten at a time. The unpublished part of that matters as published it is just one animation per registration. A group registration brings my costs way down. I have group registered plenty of digital images.
The second line of defense is choosing the platform to sell my NFTs. In two cases the platforms act as gatekeepers to the higher prices for NFTs. The application is demanding. Creating a need to market first. Nix that idea.
The platform Opensea is a much larger platform where huge numbers of artists mint NFTs. There are some small issues there but nothing difficult to deal with as a set of different choices. The issue is not depending on them for the search to be found on the platform. Which means unless my art captivates audiences I go virtually nowhere. I have no reason to worry about that as my concept will captivate a lot of people.
I have a concept for up to 100 animations depending on the quality of the early variations. As the first 30 become registered with the USCO I will begin to list some NFTs on Opensea for sale. Then I will turn to marketing the NFTs. I can give my auctions a duration that is long as I pick up an audience.
The investors in the high end of the NFT market are often younger very wealthy businesspeople. A new generation of collectors that the major art institutions are not gaining as clients. There is no shortage of acumen in their investing.
An NFT could be seen as a deed when you use the word “title” but contract is the reality of it. The title of a work of art is not copyrightable. Anyone can use most titles repeatedly. Some titles get trademarked. The NFT works based on the representation of the actual digital artwork based on who created that image. It is very secure. Highly tradable and can offer digital creators a royalty just like a TV production or movie production would.
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It will be interesting to see when someone figures out a hack and there will be a 100,000,000 copies of a “limited edition” NFT.
You can not start with the hacking of an NFT. You have to turn immediately to hacking the blockchain it is on. But then the Nodes, I believe they are called, that keep the accounting correct would simply reject the hacking efforts as incorrect information. The nodes in the Tor Network, I believe it is called, constantly check the information for the entire blockchain. I do not specifically know how many thousand nodes there are.
Good luck with that.
You are not the first think of it. But thinking and doing are two extremes for this.
Wouldn’t that be the case with any lithograph )numbered, or not)?
Jeff
A lithograph created by Andy Warhol is worth more than a lithograph created by john doe. Even if Andy produces far more of his.
The creator on the NFT determines the value in larger part. His or her work has value depending on the collectors.But thinking and doing are two extremes for this.
You might want to let the Chinese, Russian, North Korean, and Iranian hackers know this.
NH
His or her work has value depending on the collectors.
This is true of ALL collectables. Just like the Dutch and tulip bulbs.
NH
You might want to let the Chinese, Russian, North Korean, and Iranian hackers know this.
There have been forks put into blockchains, but hackers have not changed the information successfully yet. The problem is if it is egregious it fails to change it for long even if it is hacked. The ledger would revert. There is a full record of the blockchain going back on all the nodes.
There are the screamers that say want for quantum computing. I am waiting. But that is not so simple. As of now it is believed that a quantum computer will not be able to add one and one equals two. But will be able to solve so far unsolvable math problems. With two or more pieces of information in a switch simple math is not possible I guess.
I never said collectibles do not go up and down in value. It is a market.
But a non fungible token for my art forms a different market than for anyone else’s art.
My NFT is not worth the same value as anyone else’s NFT.
The market is very volatile but go back to the OP in this thread and read on the value of fine art v the SPX. You’d be much better off with investment grade fine art. Younger investors are going with NFTs.
If no one else here gets it that is only on them.
Tulips were a good thing to trade and still are being sold for good money.
All corporations come and go as well. And when they go they are not selling any longer.
Families with massive intergenerational wealth looking for very long term investments can trust artwork to be here much longer than corporations. The Rockefellers have divested from XOM but retain an expensive art collections. Note I do not know much about what is in that collection.
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Speaking of fine art…
As my moniker says, I used to own a 1938 Packard Model 1600. Here is a link to the automobile. It is a link to the person whom I sold it to a few years back.
https://www.tomlaferriere.com/listings/1938-packard-1600-tou…
It seems that vintage automobile collecting is also a way to invest. While the market is cyclical (muscle cars, 1920’s cars, 1980’s cars, monster trucks, etc.) like other investments, if you buy low and sell high, it usually works out. Not only that, but if you have a “driver” you get to take the family out for rides as well.
Loved my '38Packard, but today’s drivers are too aggressive for such an old automobile that has no power brakes, power steering, etc. to be on the road with these a**holes. Now if I could come across a 1968 Camaro…
'38Packard
Goofyhoofy,
I don’t see a good ending here for these “investors”, except perhaps in a few isolated and unique cases.
I see an NFT as the same as owning the copyright on a piece of music or a pop song recording. If you own The Beatles catalog, it’s very valuable. The fact the people can pirate the music and make copies of it doesn’t seem to make it any less valuable.
An NFT by an unknown “artist”, has the same value as song or painting by an unknown “artist”.
“Art” is whatever people are willing to pay for. “Greater fool” theory applies.
intercst
2 Likes
Leap,
You might want to chech with IBM as they have they have a 65 Qubit Quantum unit currently available for sale. I believe Google and Amazon have both been using Quantum machines for the past few years.
The Chinese claim to have a 66 Qubit computer but I not seen that independently verified.
NH
There are the screamers that say want for quantum computing. I am waiting. But that is not so simple. As of now it is believed that a quantum computer will not be able to add one and one equals two. But will be able to solve so far unsolvable math problems. With two or more pieces of information in a switch simple math is not possible I guess.
Quantum computers exist today. Brief primer here:
https://www.ibm.com/topics/quantum-computing
IBM claims that their clients are using quantum computing today to solve real-world applications. Details at link above. You might compare quantum computing today to where classical computing was in the mid-1940s: a handful of machines working only on the highest-value problems, with a lot of interest in what else might be possible.
Current cryptography (specifically AES-256) is safe from current and near-future quantum computing. (“I have a truly marvelous demonstration of this proposition which this margin is too narrow to contain.”) Hypothetically, yes, at some point, quantum computers will catch up. Researchers are already looking into quantum-safe cryptography.
I maintain a soft disbelief in NFTs at this time. I do not see that they offer me anything for the money spent. Unless I have some means to enforce my property rights, I don’t really get anything from the NFT’s purchase. This is not a religious conviction, and I’m willing to be persuaded. But for now it seems like high-tech snake oil.
If you can make money with these things to further your art, then more power to you.
Regards,
- HCF
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NH,
Dont know much about it but have heard reports of problems being solved with Quantum computing. It is still in its infancy.
There are the screamers that say “wait” for quantum computing. I am waiting. But that is not so simple
HCF and NH,
Now I see the mix up, by wait I mean quantum computers will hack blockchains. I think you get that drift. But I do not mean there are NO quantum machines.
HCF,
It is not that NFTs are worth money. It is that some of the art has a lot of merit. The contract controls that merit. The collector makes a claim if only to his buddies that he owns the NFT.
There is a new design element at this time because of digital art. An advance in images is what I mean. There were forever just seven design elements, line, form, texture, light, shape, color, space, the new design element is motions. Whether it is a GIF or animation this advance matters. Yes movies and TVs are front runners. This is still in close to the same period of time in the scheme of things. This is new to museum art or gallery art. There are digital shows now.
The value of art is very variable and volatile. But again investment grade fine art has outpaced the SPX over a two decade period by 175%. There are companies that fell out of the SPX or bankrupted. It is not all roses in any broad based investment vehicle.
The computer is technically a machine and at one time was called a computational machine. The Babbage Difference Engine was a credited with being the first mechanical computer. Alan Turing’s code breaker computer was a mechanical computing machine. One of the early computer programming languages was actually called Machine Language.
So there are Quantum machines in the form of Quantum Computational Machines made by International Business Machines.
NH
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One of the early computer programming languages was actually called Machine Language.
The acronym of my first computer language was SOAP: Symbolic Optimal Assembly Program.
Symbolic because you didn’t have to remember the actual machine code, instead of “10” you wrote “AU” Add Upper.
Optimal The IBM 650 had a magnetic drum memory. SOAP figured out the execution time of “AU” Add Upper and placed the next instruction in just the right place for optimal access timing.
Assembly because it assembled your code into working machine language.
Program because it was a 650 computer program.
The IBM 650 Magnetic Drum Calculator
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/650.html
The IBM 650 was vacuum tube based and one of the difficulties technicians faced were intermittent tubes failures, the things would connect and disconnect as they warmed up and cooled down. IBM provided technicians with rubber mallets to tap the doors to break these failing tubes. One day a client called IBM to report that the technician had gone mad, he was kicking the computer! He was told not to worry, this was standard procedure when they forgot to take along the rubber mallet.
Now you know why the primary use of computer manuals is to bash the computer.
The Captain
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My responsibility to myself is a constant education in this space.
Since much of the focus in this thread has been on digital copies…
Found this today, the Foundation is central to storing the artworks working regardless of the selling platform.
"After you’ve uploaded an artwork, your files will automatically be sent to IPFS (InterPlanetary File System). What does this mean?
Foundation is a non-custodial platform which means we don’t hold your artwork or funds in a centralized server. Instead, all of the artwork is hosted on IPFS, a peer-to-peer hypermedia protocol designed for sharing data in a distributed way. Learn more about why we use IPFS and what it means for creators.
When you upload an artwork, a canonical version is mapped to the token that lives on the blockchain and it can’t be touched or altered. The file itself is then hosted on IPFS to ensure that it will live on forever as well."
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One of the early computer programming languages was actually called Machine Language.
And it’s still in very common use - it’s what the computer actually runs. (The program that is in that form sometimes being an interpreter that executes some other code that’s in a virtual-machine language.)
However, there are some very good reasons why approximately nobody actually programs in machine language (or virtual-machine language). One of them is that practically anything you write will be a valid instruction, but not necessarily the instruction you intended. - and getting the instruction you intended is often a difficult and error-prone process. Writing in an advanced language, that has to be compiled or interpreted, is easier and less error-prone, and the compiler or interpreter adds a very useful layer of error-checking.
Particularly if that language mandates explicit variable declaration - so, brilliantly, the trend is to prohibit explicit variable declaration. Guess what sort of language I refuse to program in.
(For those who don’t understand that: imagine your program contains 19 references to a variable named “index” and, due to a typo, one reference to “idnex”. In a language that requires explicit variable declaration, one of those references to “index” will be a statement that just announces “I’m going to use a variable named index” (and maybe tells what sort of data will be in it - most likely a 32-bit integer). But there’ll be no such statement for “idnex”. So the compiler or interpreter will STOP, point at “idnex”, and tell you there’s something wrong.
But in a language that doesn’t require explicit variable declaration, the compiler or interpreter will instead create another variable, named “idnex”, and probably initialize it to zero. And your program will, often, run just fine - but it won’t correctly do what you intended.)
"After you’ve uploaded an artwork, your files will automatically be sent to IPFS (InterPlanetary File System). What does this mean?
Foundation is a non-custodial platform which means we don’t hold your artwork or funds in a centralized server. Instead, all of the artwork is hosted on IPFS, a peer-to-peer hypermedia protocol designed for sharing data in a distributed way. Learn more about why we use IPFS and what it means for creators.
When you upload an artwork, a canonical version is mapped to the token that lives on the blockchain and it can’t be touched or altered. The file itself is then hosted on IPFS to ensure that it will live on forever as well."
I’m inferring from this text that ownership of the NFT grants access rights to the art via this file system? Is that right?
Most of the NFTs I’ve seen so far are naked grifts. This would actually have some value. How much would depend on the art, of course.
Regards,
- HCF
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https://help.foundation.app/en/articles/4742869-a-complete-g…
HCF,
The full read above.
First upload, then pay the gas to mint the NFT, fill into info on the art and complete the NFT contract…the rest is automated at this point.
This is the common practice of adding a work to the blockchain.
Some platforms will delay the process till your NFT sells. Then I think the buyer pays for the gas.
Polygon is taking over for all of the different Ethereum. Polygon costs less gas to mint an NFT.
I take it Foundation is a type of clearinghouse only.
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