Fair enough - but that’s not what this law does.
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We will see if fear is enough to make doc checks routine. If fear doesn’t work, then Tallahassee will make it a law.
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Fear of what? A driver is under no danger if an undocumented person rides their bus. They would have no way of knowing the immigration status of any passenger - so they have no way of violating the law.
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Are you really this naive of the consequences of these laws? Or do you just not care if those consequences happen?
What bus driver, at low wages I’ll bet, is going to risk defending themselves against this charge, no matter that there is “no danger” to them? Why take that chance? What if they actually do know that someone is not here legally, then what?
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Ok let me see if I have this right. You can’t transport illegals in the state unless you are taking them out of the state. Bus drivers will not be arrested for transporting illegals within the state because they won’t know their status. You can’t take an illegal through the state, although the illegal may have been in the state when you picked them up. If you have an illegal in your car you will not be arrested because you are not illegal, they are.
Seems to me this law either is a nothing burger or it does not mean what you think it means.
Andy
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What charge?
Seriously - here’s the relevant text of the bill:
(1) [A] person who knowingly and willfully transports into this state an individual whom who the person knows, or reasonably should know, has entered the United States in violation of law and has not been inspected by the Federal Government since his or her unlawful entry from another country commits a felony of the third degree…
There’s no way the driver of the Crosstown #9 Local (or what have you) could ever violate this law. They’re not bringing someone into the state. They don’t have any information about whether their passengers entered the country illegally. They don’t have any information about whether any such passengers, if any are on board, were inspected by the Federal Government since their entry. And the statute has the strictest level of intent (knowingly and willingly).
You’d never get to the point where the driver was charged. There’s no probable cause for any of the elements of the crime.
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No. You can transport undocumented people within the state. The law prohibits bringing them into the state.
The law isn’t a nothingburger - it just isn’t as broad as people seem to think it is. It makes it illegal to knowingly and willingly transport to the State of Florida people you know are undocumented and entered the country illegally without going through federal processes first.
The folks who might violate this law are immigrant advocacy groups and similar organizations that help folks when they arrive in the U.S. resettle to an area where they have family, can get jobs, or have a better chance of finding support than where they happen to land first. The law characterizes that activity as “human smuggling.” Just driving a local intercity bus that is being ridden by undocumented folks isn’t going to meet the elements of that crime.
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As noted upthread:
"“With 56% approval and 41% disapproval, he [DeSantis] also was popular among Hispanic voters.”
DB2
Thanks for posting that text. OK. a city bus driver is off the hook, but the guy driving the Greyhound from Mobile could be prosecuted.
This is the key part:
Ignorance is not a defense.
Radio Shack carried a lot of products that were capable of illegal use, for instance to tap someone’s phone, or steal cable TV service. Every year, Radio Shack’s legal department sent out a letter to every store stating it was entirely up to the salesman to know the law, and to determine whether the customer intended to use the product in an illegal manner, and, if so, refuse to sell the product. That letter got corporate off the hook for selling phone tapping equipment, while the minimum wage salesman was prosecuted. There is your precedent. It would be up to Greyhound, either at the ticket office, or the driver, to verify the passenger’s status, and, if illegal, refuse him passage on the bus, the same way Federal law will require airlines to refuse passage to anyone who does not have a gold star on their driver’s license.
Steve
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Yes, it is, unless the person “reasonably should know.” Meaning that ignorance that results from a willful or negligent failure to conduct inquiries that are required by law won’t shield you from culpability. It is not a strict liability crime (like, for example, statutory rape) where guilt is completely independent from knowledge. If you didn’t have some obligation to investigate the person’s immigration status, you’re going to be fine.
There’s no “reasonably should know” here for a bus driver. There’s no obligation for a bus driver to conduct an inquiry into the immigration status of a boarding passenger - or for any other Greyhound employee to do so, either. Unlike the airlines, there isn’t a federal law requiring them to check to see if there’s a gold star on their license.
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Albaby the only problem is that Federal law supersedes state law on immigration so this really is a nothing burger. Because if the Feds decide to locate illegals in Florida than there isn’t anything Florida can do.
The U.S. Constitution includes a Supremacy Clause, which prevents state laws from interfering with immigration enforcement by the federal government.
State vs. Federal Immigration Laws and Enforcement in Atlanta.
But I can see where this is going to get contentious.
Andy
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True - they couldn’t stop the Feds from doing this. But if there’s some private non-profit immigration advocacy organization working with recent migrants out in Texas that is trying to help new arrivals reunite with their families in Florida (or just find a place to live and work that might include Florida), they’re spot in the target for this law. That’s what this provision is trying to stop - organized efforts by private advocacy groups to relocate undocumented folks to Florida.
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I think this is going to get very sticky because if those private advocacy groups, just one of them, are authorized by the United States, then the trap would be sprung. I think Florida is going to be in for a long line of lawsuits, but then, Republican Politicians seem to thrive on going to court. 
Andy
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What “trap”?
If it turns out that a particular organization is so closely affiliated with the federal government as to fall within the Supremacy Clause (and being “authorized” - whatever that means - isn’t nearly enough), then that just gets raised as a defense to the charge, and the charge will be dismissed. People get mistakenly arrested from time to time. Unless the officers have done something particularly egregious (like failing to notice that the bus driver was a uniformed ICE agent with proper credentials, for example), then nothing happens.
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The trap that the State of Florida hasn’t any standing when it comes to immigration. I can see already how this is going to play out and you should too. They can’t make immigration law, that, under the constitution, is only given to the Federal government. You don’t just arrest people that are working for the Federal Government and then say nothing happens. Have you ever seen a Federal agent be arrested by a state agency? Even once?
Andy
They’re not going to arrest anyone that actually works for the federal government. If they pull someone over that’s got a bus full of immigrants, and they identify themselves as an ICE agent (or whatever), they’re going to go on their way.
A lot of the groups that do this kind of work aren’t that. They’re private charities and not for profits that are just trying to help recent immigrants land on their feet. Not instrumentalities of the federal government.
If someone is successfully able later to argue that their particular non-governmental organization is so intricately tied to the federal government that they should be considered a de facto part of the federal government for Supremacy Clause purposes (not an easy thing to do - I’ve had clients try it), then that might be raised against a charge. But no one’s going to arrest actual Federal agents.
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I don’t often agree with DrBob but I think this is the point that democrats really need to consider. If you are serious about stopping illegal immigration then this is how you do it. You penalize the people who hire illegal workers.
Most people are against illegal immigration. Most people will be in favor of this bill. Criticize it if you want, but unless democrats/progressives come up with an alternative way to stop illegal immigration this will be a losing issue come election time.
One interesting consequence is a possible conflict of interest if DeSantis is running against Trump come primary time. How much scrutiny do you suppose the Mar-a-lago work force is going to get from DeSantis supporters?
Oddly enough, this may be a big help to Biden 2024. I’m guessing red state governors will fall all over themselves enacting something similar. If that makes the southern border less of an issue, that can only help democrats who have really come up empty on this issue.
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Albaby the states already had that ability. So how is this law going to do anything the existing laws do not already do?
Andy
Right Btresist I agree. You penalize the people who are hiring them. But from what Albaby said this is not going to do that. It is only a cudgel to go after a specific group of people that are already breaking the law. I just see this as smoke and mirrors.
Andy
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Florida didn’t have this particular law on the books before. Now they do. The states had the ability to criminalize this behavior, but most have not. Now Florida has.
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