Presented in full sarcasm mode.
Steve
2 Likes
Now you can back to school and double major in rocket science and basket weaving, just like you dream.
Profs will love to have you (for full tuition, and you will have to pay for your own rocket fuel and dried palms).
Teacher-student ratio will be amazing (pre-layoffs).
And you’ve got the papers, so you are good there.
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“Webpage views from outside US per PhD programme” - What does that even mean?
How can the metric be “from outside US”, and then list the US as one of the countries? Whose webpages are they referring to?
It would be more useful if they measured something like: “Number of students enrolled in STEM university programmes”, listed by country. At least I would understand that sort of measurement.
_ Pete
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I interpret that as people, outside the US, inquiring about PhD programs, sorted by the country where the program is. So, inquiries about programs in Australia and Switzerland are up more than 40%. Inquiries about programs in the Netherlands, and Germany, are up 15-20% Inquiries about programs in the US are down over 20% y/y.
I would suspect that, having gone to the trouble to obtain a US student visa, and gotten partway through the program, the tendency for existing students would be to finish the program, unless they are deported. So, current enrollment data would tend to lag.
Interest by new students, considering where to apply, would not have that lag, because they have not already made a commitment. They are free to react to the news reports of other students, in the US, being snatched off the street and tossed in prison, with no legal due process.
Steve
7 Likes
Fair enough. But I don’t see how that shows that STEM education is being defunded in the US. As you later indicate, it probably has more to do with potential foreign students feeling they might not be welcome in the US. I don’t see how STEM programs have been defunded, presumably on orders from the Prez.
It is not the job of the federal government to fund higher education. The universities and colleges should be able to do that themselves, through the tuitions they charge.
_ Pete
2 Likes
The title of the OP, is a narrative that uses the lack of interest in STEM programs as justification for defunding those programs, going forward.
Right now, Harvard has been targeted for very public defunding, by withdrawal of Federal grants. The bill working it’s way through Congress has a provision to tax private university income from their endowments at up to 20%.
More broadly, the stated goal of closing the Dept of Education, implies the funding distributed by that department would end.
Some states don’t want to fund education either. I have posted before how many public school districts have defunded classes like auto shop, and how the state of Michigan has cut it’s funding of universities.
I understand the purity of the position that education, and everything else, should be rationed purely by the ability of the individual to pay his way. The reality is that, a lot of people are paid so little for their labor, that, if they paid full boat for everything, a lot of things, like education, would be foregone.
Steve
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hurricane season started June 1st. The BBB wants to cut NOAA, and NWS, and I think DOGE has already cut them, and FEMA . FEMA has already shown that they are not going to be much help, even in the red hat States. So the populace is likely to get an education on what scientists and engineers are good at, via the omission of warnings and aid.
Think they’ll be smart enough to figure out what is going on,
or will it all be blamed on Biden ?? lol
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Reportedly, the head of FEMA did not even know there is a “hurricane season” in the US.
I’m sure the POTUS can save us, by using his black marker to bend all the hurricane tracks away from the US.
/sarcasm
Steve
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An alum of mine (we had zero overlap while in school) and I talked about 10 years back at a get together in Austin. He used to be the CEO of Freescale and of Wolfspeed, so he knows a thing or two. He told me that American parents still think of doctor and lawyer as being success for their kids, and STEM as still being nerdy. Hence why tech companies seem to only be able to hire Indians and Chinese as new-college-grads. The natives here aren’t going for Masters in Electrical and Computer Engineering. Worse, we are trying to kick those students out.
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This is almost word for word what people said about high school in the 1900’s. And almost word for word what people said about most education in the 1800’s.
You might want to consider that.
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Before 1900, and it went all the way to the Michigan Supreme Court. This historical marker stands in front of the high school I graduated from.
But precedent means nothing these days.
Steve
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The federal government’s proper role is an interesting philosophical question, but the federal government has been funding higher education since at least 1862. So that ship sailed long ago.
The way they are defunding STEM is by cutting research grants to universities, a number of which have already announced staffing and student enrollment cuts.
I don’t think this strategy will ultimately save any money.
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But not Justin Morrill, who back then believed the “industrialized” classed should have access to higher education. Hence, Morrill Land-Grant College Act, which was designed to do exactly that. The result was having an educated population gave the US a major economic advantage. And still does.
Now we’re going backwards, where college is more commonly being viewed as unnecessary except for the elite classes. After all, you don’t need to know Shakespeare to make T-shirts, an industry some policy makers say they want more Americans working in.
I think this is a bad policy decision. If anything, we should take our lead and expand on it. Going backwards is a mistake.
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As suggested before, I hold that education for future generations is being defunded, to give the current “JC” class another tax cut.
Steve
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I suppose that’s a matter of opinion. Just curious, what do you think the federal government’s job is?
I think it’s the federal government’s job to work with the states to improve the lives of its citizens. This includes providing and managing conditions to maintain a healthy economy. A consistent education system should ensure we have educated and trained citizens to fill current and future workforce needs.
I recognize federal government is broken in so many ways. I blame Reagan. We’d be better off today had Bonzo become the politician.
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Why does the government pay for fire departments. Your house catches fire, put it out yourself. Why “burden” the government with providing police? Someone threatens you or steals from you, deal with it yourself.
/sarcasm
Steve
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What is education?
I get most of us if not all of us have college degrees and many here post grad degrees.
Last night at the lunch counter were two interesting guys. Both only had 2 year degrees. One was a regional head manager of 19 super markets. He trained himself in logistics. The other was a retired software programmer who did a few things college educated programmers might not in CPP.
Kids today can self train. Many do.
We often say they are not as well educated but it is more they are differently educated. Some would say we have a static mindset. That the kids using so many video screens think on a higher level in motion.
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Yeah, and Abe Lincoln read books by the light of the fireplace, but I don’t think that’s a model we want to rely on for the country’s future.
I’m in favor of government paid “training” up to age 20, whether that be college, vo-tech, or other post-high school education of some sort. That means “free tuition at community college”, not “all expenses paid at Harvard.” It also means “recognized and accredited institutions of learning”, not “real estate seminars at Trump university” or “nail salon apprenticeships.”
I might not be able to define it perfectly in a post such as this, but that’s what we have regulatory agencies for - or used to, anyway.
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These days, accreditation is dependent on ideological purity.
Ripped from the headlines
Steve
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