It is not a static situation. I sure repairs are made.
It also would never surprise me to see people online put up fake news. Happens. Little guy in a small town buzzing for something to stir the pot.
I’m sure the New York Times likes to stir the pot, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t a problem. One study out of San Franciso found that 25% of the chargers were faulty.
25% Of San Francisco's EV Charging Stations Don't Work - Electric City News.
DB2
2 Likes
…and the duration of this “faultiness” is what?
Forever and ever Mrs Jackson?
Reliability of Open Public Electric Vehicle Direct Current Fast Chargers
Rempel et al.
This study evaluated the functionality of the charging system for 657 EVSE (electric vehicle service equipment) CCS connectors (combined charging system) on all 181 open, public DCFC (direct current fast chargers) charging stations in the Greater Bay Area…Overall, 72.5% of the 657 EVSEs were functional…A random evaluation of 10% of the EVSEs, approximately 8 days after the first evaluation, demonstrated no overall change in functionality…However, if the test methodology had required successful charging with just one credit card, the percent of functional EVSEs would have dropped from 72.5 to 49.2%.
DB2
Bob,
What is the source for that?
Ah, here’s the link:
Some people, myself included, wouldn’t call that a “long drive”. 700 miles in a few days? That’s called commuting. 3000 miles in a couple of weeks? That’s an average of 225 miles a day for 14 days. Peanuts.
When I take a long drive, I’m knocking out 400-500 miles in a day. LA to Phoenix - 350 miles in one day. LA to Seattle - 1100 miles in 2 1/2 days. (Sacramento, first day - 400 miles. Eugene, OR, second day - 450 miles). Of course, there are some breaks as you do these, but they’re short and to the point. Usually carry a cooler with some simple lunches so we can keep rolling. And these aren’t just made-up trips. These are real world drives I’ve done multiple times. The trip to Seattle I’ve done probably a dozen times or more for my wife’s annual family reunion. We don’t go every year, but she got antsy if we missed 2 years in a row.
Some of these are potentially doable with an extended range Tesla (claimed 400 mile range). But probably not doable at the 70-75 MPH speeds I’m driving on the interstates, which is the posted speed limits - not the actual speed most folks drive.
I’m getting from here to there to spend a few days at the destination with family and friends. Yes, I’ve done the more leisurely trips. But it’s not always possible due to time constraints with work and vacation time.
I’m sure it’s possible to carefully plan a proper long road trip around fast charging. But that’s still going to involve at least a one hour stop for charging, and even that assumes an open charger.
Plus - I still can’t get my son’s motorized wheelchair into any Tesla.
–Peter
PS - Your unlimited free supercharging is no longer a thing. It was last offered in 2020. You’ve got to pick up a qualified used model S or X to get it today.
1 Like
400 miles in a Tesla that has a range or 300-350 miles is fairly easy. You only need to stop once, mid trip, for about 15-20 minutes. So longer than a gas/restroom/snack stop but not excessively. You do have to plan a hotel stop that has a destination charger (max 22 kw, so a free full charge in about 3-4 hours overnight). Or you need another 30 min Supercharger stop in the destination area at dinner or breakfast the next day. But then at ~70 mph you are only driving about 6 hours per day. This doesn’t seem like a rushed trip where an extra 30 minutes matters much or can’t be overlapped with one meal per day.
One thing people have found is that it is better to charge twice per day every 3-4 hours for ~15 minutes rather than think full charge of an hour once per day since the charging rate is higher between 20% - 80% of full. Of course this only works if you have lots of choices of where to charge. Roughly, I see ~30 Superchargers between LA and Seattle on I5. And there are multiple locations with 20 and even 40 stalls.
So progress has been made over the last few years in terms of incrementally longer ranges and more places to fast charge and it will get better and better (rather than worse) going forward for other EV makes.
There is no solution to this any time soon that I’ve heard of. 
Mike
2 Likes
Sure there is! Tesla isn’t the only EV available, there are tons of models nowadays. If you need a vehicle that can fit a heavy wheelchair, you need to buy that kind of vehicle. Maybe a Ford F-150 Lightning might be able to handle it? Obviously with the required modifications for a lift, etc, but any production car would need those modifications.
I’m waiting for an EV minivan to replace our ICE minivan. So far, there are no EV minivans, and unfortunately, minivans have dramatically dropped in popularity, so there may never be one. I may have to opt for some sort of truck instead. I have a cybertruck on order, but no hint of a delivery date yet.
2 Likes
I wonder how big the VW Microbus EV will be?
1 Like
Chrysler makes a plug in hybrid minivan; about 40 miles on a charge after which it switches to gas. So for most driving it will be on electrons, for longer distances it will be on gas.
1 Like
I occasionally have to poke Tesla fanbois to remind them that a Tesla is not the perfect car for everyone. My wheelchair comment, in addition to being quite real, is also meant as a way to drag folks back down to earth.
The Lightning wouldn’t fit my need to carry my son while in his chair. He might enjoy riding in the bed with the wind in his hair, but I suspect the local constables won’t approve. 
I’m waiting for an electric full size van. That’s the most likely way to find an EV that works for the wheelchair. And that may actually happen, rather than a minivan, which I fear is dying as you suggest.
–Peter
1 Like
Not that can be charged at anywhere near 30 (working) fast chargers between LA and Seattle and at numerous destinations (hotels). Maybe in a couple of years the CCS chargers will be working and convenient enough to just jump in and drive (almost) anywhere on the Interstates without any real planning.
Mike
To be fair to the EV industry, as a whole about 1% of the US population are in wheel chairs of some kind (if my googling is right). And some of those at any one time are temporary after some medical procedure. And some, for example are elderly and can stand, but not walk long distances.
As you know, there are many levels of being in a wheel chair, too.
I did have a elderly family friend who passed ~year ago at 95. I was able to get her out of the chair and into my Tesla and put the wheel chair in the trunk, no problem. She was still doing most of her own yard work until about 92.
So I have no idea what percentage need a van, like you (Peter), but it is less than 1%. and no reason to even try and move to an EV van as an early adopter – the CO2 savings and initial cost don’t really make sense…yet.
More googling says that the total market for wheel chair vans is about 40K/yr compared to 18M cars total…so about 0.2%.
Mike
1 Like
It’s more than just wheelchairs. That’s just my particular method of stirring the pot. There are many other situations where a Tesla won’t work. Got a family of 8? My lowly minivan will do, but you can’t cram 8 people into a Tesla (I think the S with the rear seats only gets to 7, and you really have to not like the people you put into those seats).
My annoyance is the fanbois (a term I use in the most derogatory way possible here) who can’t seem to comprehend any situation where a Tesla isn’t the perfect car. Wheelchair? Just fold it up and put it in the trunk. (Even my son’s manual chair - yes, he has two - doesn’t fold. It has to be disassembled to fit into a trunk.) Tow my travel trailer? A Model X can tow! And CYBERTRUCK!!! (Coming in 2019. Or 2020. Or 2022. Or …)
So when they show up, I like to cause a little problem. To point out their foibles in a fairly gentle, but effective way.
Its my form of entertainment. I don’t get much entertainment these days, as I settle into grumpy old man mode.
–Peter
PS - I really would like an EV. They make a whole lot of sense for my suburban existence. But not at luxury car prices.
1 Like
Plug in hybrids, while nice, are not my desired solution. For a few reasons, some global, and some my own:
- About 25% of PHEV owners almost never plug them in. These use gasoline for all their driving.
- Another 25-35% only plug them in rarely. These use gasoline for most of their driving.
- PHEVs usually have very slow chargers and are really a PITA.
- They have the worst of both worlds, they have the battery, the plug, and the charging system. AND they have all those moving parts that require all sorts of lubrication, and eventually wear out, of an ICE.
- Personally, I would constantly be “worrying” about the darn 40 mile limit and timing all my trips around that. No thanks. I’d rather have a normal 300+ mile limit which makes the timing a lot easier (our EV with 150 mile range gets much different use than out EV with 350 mile range. The 150 mile range one is almost solely used for commuting.)
2 Likes
I suppose I could lay it out in detail, but there were no days that were “average”. There were driving days in which driving would be anywhere from 100 to 700 miles. Commuting is different. It all worked just fine.
But I see you’re just being purposely obstreperous. I’ll return this in kind by pointing out that you are utterly unqualified to have an opinion on how unsuitable a Tesla is for a road trip until you’ve done a few road trips in a Tesla. How you imagine it works is nothing like how it does work. So you’re just spreading ignorance.
Of course it isn’t. And it makes no particular sense to get in a new vehicle anyway, since you’re really just paying up front for “free” electricity.
But since I’ve got it, it just makes things even better for me. Although sadly, unlike my original 2014 Model S, if I ever sell this one the free unlimited supercharging promotion doesn’t transfer to the new owner.
-IGU-
2 Likes
Then I will continue my obstreperousness by reminding you that you were touting something that no longer exists. Pumping up the image of Tesla with features that can no longer be obtained.
I don’t believe I have to personally experience things to have valid opinions. It is perfectly possible (some might even say preferable) to learn from the experiences of others.
In that vein, which, if any, of these statements is not factual.
-
The stated range of a Tesla on a single charge is between roughly 250 and 400 miles, depending on the model and options.
-
You can add about 200 miles to your Tesla in about 15 minutes at a supercharger.
-
Non-superchargers (220v AC) will add range at the rate of about 30 miles per hour of charging. Maybe up to 50 miles per hour in ideal conditions (moderate ambient temperatures, battery at about 30% - 50% state of charge, 50 amp AC rather than 30 or 40 amp)
Assuming those are all correct, which I believe them to be, the only reasonable way to significantly exceed the range of your particular Tesla (let’s call significant to be 150% of stated range) is to charge at a supercharger en route. Which is, one would suppose, the whole point of superchargers.
Therefore, to travel 700 miles in a day in your Tesla, you must plan your route around supercharging. Any other charging method would be impractical and potentially dangerous on the road, unless one also slept while charging.
Math: At non-superchargers, that’s 400 mile range plus a minimum of 6 hours charging at 50 miles per hour of charge to get to 700 miles. That’s 10 hours driving at 70 MPH and 6 hours charging, for a minimum elapsed time of 16 hours. At superchargers, you get 400 mile range plus 20-25 minutes of charging (preferably in 2 separate sessions) so the 700 miles could be done in 7.5 hours of elapsed time.
Here’s Tesla’s own map of supercharger locations in North America. Might have to scroll down to get to the map
If you’re on the East Coast, supercharging is a non-issue.They’re all over the place. Between there and the Mississippi river, you’ve still got lots of choices, just need to be careful in the very rural areas. If you’re on the West Coast, you’re also OK in most of California. Washington is good on I-5 and Seattle. In Western Washington, stick to the interstates. In Oregon, your choices appear to be I-5, US 101 and Portland. In that vast expanse west of the Mississippi and east of the pacific states, you need to stay on the major interstates for east-west travel. North-south travel can probably hopscotch between the interstates. But forget lazy drives along side roads. For that, you had better stick to your car’s range and make sure you’ve got 220v charging at your overnight stops.
What this all boils down to is very annoying Tesla owners who seem to write posts that suggest their experience is going to apply to everyone.
–Peter
2 Likes
Sure free supercharging for life can still be obtained. Buy an old Tesla that has it. The older ones are transferable.
My wife also really likes the moonroof, which is no longer available. I suppose that mentioning that would be “pumping”? You’re really reaching.
Of course. Women will generally recognize what you’re doing as “mansplaining”.
So yeah, go ahead and tell people what their EV experience will be like. ICEsplaining?
Suffice it to say that your guesses and math are mostly irrelevant to actual travel in a Tesla. While it is indeed possible to get yourself in a bad situation, it’s about as likely as running out of gas. If you’re stupid and careless it can happen. It’s more likely if you’re also inexperienced.
The reality tends to be that you just tell the navigation system where you want to go and it tells you the fastest way to get there, including supercharger stops. But in most areas you have some choices, and will likely end up choosing different from the suggestions. Because there’s some side trip you want to do, or there’s a place you want to eat and so you’ll end up charging a lot more (eating takes time) while you’re there, or whatever.
And regardless, you’ll have a better drive due to Autopilot (and not needing to go to gas stations), and either be more rested or happy to drive longer, whatever works for you. Lazy drives along side roads usually included. But not always, because not everywhere is the same. And the navigation system will warn you if you’re getting yourself into trouble, and do so more and more insistently if you don’t have any reasonable options.
To be fair, Wyoming and Montana are still a challenge if you want to travel fast and far off the main roads.
Also to be fair, there are many places to stay that support charging. So you’ll wake up in the morning with a “full tank” despite not having to stop for “gas”.
Using a Tesla for long trips is so much better in so many ways that the fact that there are drawbacks just doesn’t matter much to anybody who has experienced it.
-IGU-
2 Likes
Seems a safe bet that PHEVs (whatever) are going to have a significant share, such as the Toyota Prius Prime, with a 25 mile battery-only range. With WFH, plugging into a regular 110 circuit and short trips, the gas mileage goes up around 80mpg. And they cost literally 1/2 of a new Model Y. Huge opportunity for Toyota & others.
1 Like