Toyota spent beaucoup bucks on fuel cell cars. Aren’t they powered by hydrogen?
DB2
And on Australia’s west coast…
BP has advised its partners in the Australian Renewable Energy Hub, originally conceived as a monster 26 gigawatt wind and solar project that would produce green hydrogen and ammonia for the domestic and export markets, that it no longer fits with its global strategy…
The plan was to tap in to the huge demand from the regions iron ore miners to decarbonise their operations, and to grow a domestic and export market for green hydrogen and green ammonia. A plan for a cable to south-east Asia had been abandoned some years ago. The Pilbara decarbonisation plan is still going ahead. However, Fortescue, which intends to reach “real zero” emissions by 2030, appears likely to do that with its own wind, solar and battery projects.
The rollout of green hydrogen, however, have been put on the backburner, largely because of the lack of strong demand and the struggle with costs, and the competition from competing technologies such as EVs, battery storage and electrification that has eliminated some of its anticipated markets. Green hydrogen will still play a key role in some hard to abate industries, such as green iron, but those projects are still in their pilot stage and not likely to be developed at the scale and speed once touted by the likes of Fortescue boss Andrew Forrest.
DB2
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Hydrogen has turned into “a valley of disillusionment” according to Miguel Stilwell d’Andrade, chief executive of Portuguese power company EDP.
Green hydrogen retreat poses threat to emissions targets
https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/climate-energy/green-hydrogen-retreat-poses-threat-emissions-targets-2025-07-23/
DB2
Stillwell also said
“What’s missing is the demand. There are 400 million euros ($464.2 million) of subsidies for hydrogen in Spain and Portugal, but we need someone to buy the hydrogen.”…
It is at least three times more expensive than natural gas as a fuel for power generation, for example, and twice as expensive as grey hydrogen.
DB2
Meanwhile in China, green hydrogen is being made with AI:
The Chinese have also developed a next generation wind turbine that is the most powerful built.
China is dominating solar energy, offshore wind energy, and now green hydrogen production. In contrast, the US is trying to return to fossil fuels. China will soon have the technology to provide energy independence to any country in the world, no further requirement to import coal or oil. Furthermore, its investments into renewables probably puts its technology a generation or two ahead of its western competitors, just like with batteries. China is building a technological moat in green energy.
Over the next 10-20 years, which country do you suppose will be dominating the global energy market?
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Yep, and it was a bust. Whatever replaces gasoline has to be something around the same cost. Barring some new technology that has not yet been invented, hydrogen will always been too expensive. And there are other tough problems stacked on top of that as well, like distribution.
Agreed. However, a lot of people at Toyota would disagree that it’s “a conclusion that didn’t require a lot of thought.”
DB2
Make sure you are comparing apples to apples. DrBob’s article you responded to was about using hydrogen for power. Your article was about using green hydrogen as a feedstock to make ammonia.
Regardless if it is green or not, you need hydrogen to make ammonia. Back in the day, they used to use electrolysis, but in recent decades the most common method is to use natural gas as a feedstock.
As the price of renewable energy drops, electrolysis becomes more attractive, especially if you are using energy that otherwise would have been curtailed (which I believe is what they are doing here).
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I don’t agree with the distinction you are making. My link describes a Chinese plant that uses solar/wind energy to generate Hydrogen from water electrolysis and then converts that hydrogen to ammonia for ease of transport. The ammonia can be used for energy or fertilizer.
That belief is incorrect. The plant is located in Inner Mongolia, which is rich in wind/sun and poor in fossil fuels, and is dedicated to green hydrogen production. The process appear complex as it draws energy from both wind and solar, and stores some energy as liquid nitrogen that allows hydrogen production when the wind/sun aren’t available. AI is used to run the operation with optimal efficiency. This tech allows Inner Mongolia to now be an energy exporter, sending green hydrogen in the form of ammonia to places where it is needed.
As an example, the green ammonia produced was transported to the coast where it was used to fuel and power a specially designed tugboat for the first time. This is a proof of concept demonstration that “the entire value chain, from green ammonia production to transportation, bunkering, and operation of ammonia-powered vessels, is now fully established”. This may be a big deal as China is a maritime shipping power. China can decarbonize maritime shipping without any need for American cooperation. Envision Completes First Green Ammonia Ship Bunkering
While the West runs away, the Chinese are pioneering new technology and creating an increasingly large advantage in green hydrogen synthesis.
I can see how this technology once optimized would be attractive to many fossil fuel-poor countries with undeveloped land who want to become energy independent or even energy exporters. The Sudan could use part of its desert to produce green ammonia for export. It might actually end up having an economy.
Imagine if the Chinese corner the market on green ammonia production tech as well as ammonia-driven ships and then impose a “big and beautiful” carbon tax on oil-driven ships entering its ports.
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You don’t agree they are using green hydrogen to make ammonia?
So what if they are? The point is they are making green hydrogen on a large scale for economic purposes that includes energy production. Why is it so important to you whether that the green hydrogen produced is converted to ammonia first?
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Beats me. You said you disagreed with me that they were making green hydrogen because you said they are making green hydrogen.
China is developing it’s own versions of every potential energy source.
Nuclear both fission and fusion.
Hydroelectric.
Wind.
Solar of various flavors.
Oil refining and use.
And coal.
China’s goal is to not be controlled by US West “sanctions”.
China is striving to control every aspect of its economy.
Ie “vertical integration”, independent from any adversarial actions.
China has demonstrated that as it gains control over essential processes, making other countries dependent on China, China will use that power, to negatively affect the economies of those other countries.
China employs what other countries call "unfair trade practices ", to destroy competition, and further solidify China’s dominance.
This has macroeconomic consequences for every individual country, as well as all the “trade blocks”.
IMO.
ralph
The best bet is thorium reactors.
The rest is possibly a waste of resources.
I disagreed with your claim that my criticism of the OP was not an apples to apples comparison because of some nonsense you brought up about feedstock. It seems we now agree it is all apples.
(Edit, wrote fertilizer in original when meant feedstock. My bad.)
That is in interesting retelling of the story.