Or, sew on a couple of buttons and use real suspenders … end of problem.
My Grandfather used real suspenders but when he went off a cliff they still came off.
Andy
1 Like
Just because someone decides to not be in a stock anymore doesn’t mean it’s a screaming short. Sometimes the best decision is to find the stocks you decide to stay away from, even if they were stocks who you previously invested in. When material information changes the investment thesis can change too.
A lack of insider buying doesn’t show no confidence. Most insiders are compensated with stock and options, and need to regularly sell them to keep from having irresponsibly high allocations to a single company.
You don’t know their personal financial picture and it just may not make sense for them to add more to what is an already overweight percentage of their wealth.
But if you want insider buying, Steve Wynn just bought about $55 million or so (yes, dollars) of shares of WYNN on the open market. That’s some confidence for you
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Soth, why would a person who never shorts give a thumbs down in CAPS … especially if they never did anything with CAPS in the first place. The point is that Saul lacks confidence in BOFI and would rather put his money elsewhere … that is a very different issue than thinking it would be a wise move to short the stock!!!
Hey thumbs down on CAPS doesn’t mean shorting the stock. Actually that is exactly why I suggested trying out CAPS. It is a way to state negativity on a stock without actually shorting it. I wasn’t at all suggesting shorting the stock. CAPS is used for many different purposes and one is just to track your calls and see if they out performed or underperformed the market. I don’t think it is a bad suggestion.
Once again… I never suggested shorting!!! 
I agree no position is very different then shorting. I was referring to a simulated scenario that many people use on here for FUN. I suggested marking the position and maybe we can analyze and learn from it later.
1 Like
Let me reiterate, I think Bofi the company will more likely than not come out of this way up from where it is now.
If you really believe that Saul, it shouldn’t be that hard to understand why some of us still hold shares. It’s not quite as confounding as some of your posts have implied.
Fletch
8 Likes
Let me reiterate, I think Bofi the company will more likely than not come out of this way up from where it is now.
If you really believe that Saul,it shouldn’t be that hard to understand why some of us still hold shares. It’s not quite as confounding as some of your posts have implied.
God, Fletch, how many times have I said, “if you want to hold your shares you’ll more than likely do very well, but it’s not for me”.
What I admit I don’t understand is those who won’t deign to read and evaluate on its merits the (admittedly circumstantial and unproven) evidence piling up day after day, on the basis that it was written by people who are short the stock.
By that reasoning, you wouldn’t read recommendations in favor of a company written by people who are long the stock. (Those are often chock full of opinions, and unproven or undocumented positives, in addition to the facts, just like the short articles).
Saul
MisterFungi: If you had said you think Saul’s judgment is “wrong” on BOFI, that would be one thing. But to say that “what you’ve done” is wrong?
That’s just wrong.
Point taken. Poor choice of words on my part.
Of course Saul can write whatever he wants to write on his own board. As you correctly observe, I should have said I disagreed with the way in which he supported his opinion, especially his repeated reliance on misinformation printed on Seeking Alpha.
My bad and my apologies to Saul.
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SaulR80683: What I admit I don’t understand is those who won’t deign to read and evaluate on its merits the (admittedly circumstantial and unproven) evidence [And please, “evidence” implies “facts” and the Seeking Alpha articles are suspiciously short on facts and long on allegations and distortions.] piling up day after day, on the basis that it was written by people who are short the stock.
I did.
Here: http://discussion.fool.com/since-this-laundry-list-of-quotred-fl…
Here: http://discussion.fool.com/this-is-a-continuation-of-the-review-…
Here: http://discussion.fool.com/to-bring-you-up-to-date-this-is-a-con…
Here: http://discussion.fool.com/cmfmikenpdx-taken-altogether-i-get-th…
Here: http://discussion.fool.com/cmfmikenpdx-i-just-read-through-the-w…
Here: http://discussion.fool.com/soth12-why-not-post-about-this-on-the…
And of all the Seeking Alpha allegations against BofI, which are even actionable?
JPMorganChase has paid $38 billion in 22 settlements from 2009 through March of this year. Bank of America has paid $76.6 billion during the same period, in 31 cases, and Citigroup has paid settlements of $15.8 billion in 15 cases.
Funny that Seeking Alpha isn’t writing articles about any of those banks.
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Hello Saul,
You have a great board here and it is populated by folks who respect and admire you, and are grateful for the venue that you have created. It is that respect and appreciation that makes us reluctant to post a disagreement with your opinions. I believe that dialogue with someone having a thoughtful opinion different from my own is beneficial. If my posts have offended you in any way, please understand that is not my intent.
What I admit I don’t understand is those who won’t deign to read and evaluate on its merits the (admittedly circumstantial and unproven) evidence piling up day after day, on the basis that it was written by people who are short the stock.
It is my belief that many of us here who are still invested in BOFI have read all of the short articles, evaluated them (on their merits)and have disregarded them because we find them mostly without merit. It is my belief that the shorts are very intelligent and I scour their material to see if there is something I have missed in my investment thesis. You have stated that you are not expert in banking. You have stated that Fletch is the expert in that field that you recognize. Why can’t you accept that he has probably read and evaluated the material that has caused you to change your mind on the investment and come to a different conclusion than you? Why would you believe that he or me or any of us simply disregard the statements of the shorts because they are short? I am not trying to be confrontational here, but trying to get you to see that you are not paying us the same respect that we pay you. For instance, when I called you out for saying that BOFI was a failed bank, you did not respond. In my experience on this board, when you called me out, I responded. It is a response in the spirit of investment discussion that I am looking for.
Best regards,
Mike
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You have stated that you are not expert in banking. You have stated that Fletch is the expert in that field that you recognize. Why can’t you accept that he has probably read and evaluated the material that has caused you to change your mind on the investment and come to a different conclusion than you?
Hi Mike, I think I have stated that I think that Fletch’s point of view (that nothing important will come of this, and that BOFI is a worthwhile hold) “is likely” and “has a better than 50-50 chance” of being correct, but that I am just not comfortable with it (perhaps because of my previous experiences with certain other stocks in the past, which perhaps has made me irrationally gun-shy about this kind of situation).
I do know that whenever I post about BOFI, even with the best of intentions about alerting people, it always turns out badly. I really must be a slow learner about this. I’ll keep my mouth shut, in fact I plan to take BOFI off my stock screens, as I should have done before, so I won’t be tempted to comment. I’m really ready to get back to discussing interesting stocks, instead of wrestling with this.
Best,
Saul
12 Likes
God, Fletch, how many times have I said, “if you want to hold your shares you’ll more than likely do very well, but it’s not for me”.
I think it’s the universal problem with written communication in that you can’t hear tone of voice or read body language. You have also written many times just what you wrote above, but you’ve also written quite a few statements that are along the lines of, “How in the world could anyone still hold this stock?!?” I think the defensiveness you’re sensing in a number of these posts (possibly in mine as well) is frustration over what sometimes feels like equivocation.
It is sometimes difficult for me to figure out where you’re going with your message when you state that this will likely turn out to be a good investment, but then 10 minutes later you post something to the BOFI Rule Breakers board about latest Seeking Alpha article and question how anyone could still possibly believe in the company. I certainly understand and respect why BOFI is not for you, but perhaps you are unaware that a number of your posts on the Rule Breakers board come across as, “How can any of you (f)ools continue to hold this stock after reading the latest article?”
If we were discussing this over a glass of wine, I’m sure it would be a much easier conversation. The written word does have its limitations.
Fletch
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Saul
You do seem genuinely perplexed by the reactions you are getting on BOFI, and several times over the past several weeks and months I have tried to craft a post that might help cast some light on that for you, but I have not managed to strike a note that I was happy with.
So let me just reiterate what Fletch said:
I certainly understand and respect why BOFI is not for you, but perhaps you are unaware that a number of your posts on the Rule Breakers board come across as, “How can any of you (f)ools continue to hold this stock after reading the latest article?”
I have great respect for you and what you are achieving. However if I did not know better, there are several of your posts where I could easily conclude that you were a shill for the shorts - based on their tone and the selective nature of the content and analysis.
Perception is in the eye of the beholder!
Hope this helps
Cham
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You do seem genuinely perplexed by the reactions you are getting on BOFI…
Hi Cham, Yes I have been perplexed by the reactions I’ve been getting. People have recently posted all kinds of negative expectations about Skyworks because of perceived weakness in Apple iPhone sales. I disagree with their point of view, and what I consider their misperception of the company, and try pointing out why. I sometimes feel that they really don’t understand the company, but it has truly never occurred to me to get angry at them for posting it. And that Skechers is just a fad, and SEDG (before the tax credit got renewed) and LGIH (that with low oil prices they won’t be able to sell houses in Texas), etc. People often disagree with these stocks I’ve chosen for myself, and say all kinds of things about them that I disagree with. People have accused them of being risky, potentially high beta stocks, and on and on. I disagree. But to get so emotionally ANGRY? About criticism of a company??? I just don’t understand the intense emotional responses I’ve gotten. Which is why I’ll quit posting about the company which arouses such intense feelings.
When I was in those Chinese companies which went belly-up, Starrob tried warning us to be cautious. Many times. I wish I had listened but I ignored him, but afterwards I was really appreciative of his efforts, and it was for that reason I’ve tried to suggest people to be cautious in a situation like this. It was a mistake. People just ended up being really angry. I’ve learnt my lesson.
Thanks for your comments
Saul
5 Likes
Saul,
I have followed the discussions here on BOFI with some vested interest, as I have a .3% position in the company myself. I originally thought reading what you had to say would be useful and informative.
It was surprising to me the speed with which you bailed out of such a large investment. It was even more surprising to see you buy back in not long after.
Once you had traded back in and out a few times, I stopped being surprised and realized that this position had simply beaten you. For whatever reason-- your experience with Chinese stocks, your large exposure to the position, who knows-- you just couldn’t make heads or tails of it. And, in fairness, you admitted as much several times on the board.
The part that I think many readers may find frustrating is you couldn’t stop there. You had to be “right” in your decision. Not just right to walk away and admit BOFI is in the too hard pile, but right in there being something wrong with the company. So you stopped being impartial and, whether you can recognize it or not, you started siding with the shorts, being convinced there is something wrong. When I calmly asked for some corroboration of a very strong statement you made (“I KNOW they are right!”) you brushed me off by saying “Sorry, I promised I wouldn’t talk about BOFI anymore.” Your underlying belief that BOFI was damaged goods led to an admonishing, condescending tone to others still in the stock.
So… I don’t know about you, but I am a grown man, very capable of making balanced decisions in the face of risk and reward. I have ways of coping. My way of dealing with situations like this is taking an appropriate allocation; as I said, I have three tenths of a percent of my liquid assets in BOFI. And, as someone who has learned to make such balanced decisions, I do not appreciate others telling me through thinly veiled subtext that I am an idiot and don’t appreciate the risks involved with my actions.
You continue to blast others on the board as being emotional about BOFI. I’m not emotional at all, and I don’t see many other posters here who are emotional either. I actually do see a large number of very intelligent, well-reasoned arguments for BOFI here. Nothing conclusive of course, but much better research and discussion than I see from Seeking Alpha. So I am inclined to hold my position and ride it out. With a .3% position, I can do this pretty easily; I can afford to lose the whole thing, and will make it up on a good opening any day of the week.
Saul, the most emotional posts I have read on this board about BOFI are not from other readers. They are from you.
Rob
31 Likes
Hi Rob, You are right about a lot of things.
I can’t make head or tails of it.
Bofi is now in the “too hard” pile for me.
My experience with Chinese stocks influenced me.
You are wrong about one thing, that I was “convinced there was something wrong” with the company. I don’t have a clue! My logical guess is that even if there are small irregularities proven, it won’t affect the progress of the company. They will have good earnings and the stock price will come back, and much more. But that’s just a “guess”. I feel too cautious to be in it myself.
I’m sorry you felt that I was implying you were an idiot. I certainly didn’t mean to, even if you read my comments that way.
Saul
10 Likes
The criticisms of Saul’s posts regarding BOFI are beginning to sound shrill and very silly to me.
I believe it is time for all us us to grow up and remember we all come from different backgrounds with vastly different investment experiences.
IMO Saul is simply saying “proceed with caution” regarding BOFI. Nothing more. Nothing less.
I have been reading Saul’s posts for at least 3 years and have never once seen him “blasting” anyone. Nor have I ever seen him write with an admonishing or condescending tone. In fact, courtesy and respect for all viewpoints is what first attracted me to his board…and I have seen nothing about his postings that is anything other than a calm professionalism.
After almost 15,000 postings on Saul’s Investing Discussions, it is obvious someone is doing something very right…and very unique.
Jim
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Hi Saul,
Like I have said before I really appreciate your warnings on any stocks and would hate to see you refrain from posting about BOFI or any stock. Though I have to agree with Fletch’s post. I think the wording of your posts may have given a different perception then just a warning. It also felt to me as if you were telling us all something like… How can you possibly be in this stock when it is so blatantly obvious you shouldn’t be. I didn’t agree things were quite so bad. I did research above and beyond the articles and it just reassured that this seemed to me more of an opportunity then anything else. I am ok if we disagree. I was just eagerly waiting to hear your side above and beyond the actual article. Actually your questioning of the situation made me look into it that much more carefully and for that I am very appreciative.
Maybe the lesson to take away isn’t to avoid posting about BOFI. Maybe it is to be a little bit more careful in the choice of words.
I know I admittedly am not the best at choosing my words and have wished I could take back some posts on occasion. It happens. We are all human and not perfect. I tried to learn and now usually read over my posts a couple times before committing to them though not always.
Best,
Soth
5 Likes
Hi Saul,
I am not really into discussing BOFI, but I want to thank you because I bailed on BOFI at just a little bit of a breakeven price when you said you were having problems with it. That helped me and I appreciate it.
Everybody knows that we are called THE MOTLEY FOOL and we are supposed to have different opinions and thoughts and feelings about all these companies. It is totally normal and everybody who owns a company should be prepared to have people who disagree with them! Even disagree with them in big bold ways and even maybe emotionally charged ways and maybe ways that are over the top. I haven’t read any of the back and forth and I don’t have interest to, but you are OK. People holding Bofi are OK too. What happens, happens.
Also, this is your board Saul, you talk about whatever you want to!!! I mean, really!!! Really!!! Now if you are stirring up the BOFI board, what’s wrong with that too? If you get too crazy the risk is that people will tune you out, or get upset. But I don’t think there is anything wrong with discussing stocks. Do you think you have made it personal with people? We are just discussing ideas. It should all be good and really, having people challenge your thoughts and looking at all sides of things is GOOD. It should make people more thoughtful and stronger.
I think that it is OK to find a company you don’t hold interesting and to enjoy watching the drama happening at that company. I am watching Chipotle like a train wreck. It is so interesting. I don’t hold CMG and actually just made a post on CMG about how I love SBUX so much more. Will CMG shareholders become upset about that? I hope not. It’s just an opinion, everybody has one, yadda, yadda.
You talk about anything you want to. I’m skipping the BOFI posts just because I’m not interested but maybe some people will enjoy them. I’m sorry that this is a struggle, and I know you care about the people who visit your board and I think that is smart and sensitive.
Happy Holidays! Muah!
Karen
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I agree foodles (14808)…quite emotional. No one is being technically uncivil here but I do hear disrespect. Please let’s do our best to keep tone courteous.
Gary
p.s. I always hated it when my mother said…if you don’t have anything nice to say…but maybe she is right
and this is Saul’s board after all…
And, yes, I do want to hear opposing opinions to Saul’s.
I can’t resist…last one…
When when one is a guest in someone’s house(literally), you behave. If you decide you don’t want to visit that house any more in the future then you decline further invitation.
signed,
your local schoolmarm
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I agree foodles (14808)…quite emotional. No one is being technically uncivil here but I do hear disrespect. Please let’s do our best to keep tone courteous.
Gary
I’m sorry, Gary, why am I being singled out here with respect to being uncivil and disrespectful???
The post you reference (14808) was regarding LGIH and inquiring about the drop today. To be specific, it said, I was also trying to find any news as to why the 6% further drop today and came up empty handed.
Do you want to elaborate on where I’m showing disrespect?
Foodles/Mike
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Nevermind, Gary, I realize now your post (I think) was agreeing with an earlier post of mine from about a week ago about some folks reacting emotionally to one of Saul’s posts.
I thought you were accusing me of being the uncivil and disrespectful one…as my kids say, LOL, HAHA!