# Musk thinks there is fraud in Social Security **URL:** \ **Category:** Macro Economic Trends and Risks\ **Created:** [February 3, 2025, 6:14am UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/musk-thinks-there-is-fraud-in-social-security/112992 "2025-02-03T06:14:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![buynholdisdead](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/buynholdisdead/32/12874_2.png) [@buynholdisdead](https://discussion.fool.com/u/buynholdisdead)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 5:34pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/musk-thinks-there-is-fraud-in-social-security/112992/21 "2025-02-03T17:34:30Z")
> [@rainphakir](#): > > Y’all are welcome to your own YMMV opinions. > > Y’all use misdirection (false equivalent, red herrings, a pantheon of logical errors n fallacies, etc) to justify your emotional opinions. > > In the end, these are YOUR OPINIONS. > > IDK how this will turn out. > I’m willing to give Musk the benefit of the doubt, until I have better data, facts. > I reserve the right to move my opinion right or left as REAL FACTS reveal themselves. Ralph you are welcome to your opinion but this is a slippery slope. Once you let a part of the Constitution go away then the rest of it is up for grabs. Just like when congress gave up their right to levy Tariffs we now have a President that uses them to beat up on our neighbors. That used to be Congress’s job. Now you have a President creating agencies and putting people in it. Some of them right out of high school and given access to all of the countries information, and each persons information. All without being vetted. If this stands this will be the law of the land. Everyone should be mad about this because now every President will be able to do this. I can think of a lot of agencies the next Democrat President will institute all without the oversight of Congress. You can bet Congress is thinking this over too. Nobody needs to tell you what to do. Your a grown man and you have already made up your mind about what you are going to do. I respect that. ---
**Author:** ![AdrianC](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/adrianc/32/4898_2.png) [@AdrianC](https://discussion.fool.com/u/AdrianC)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 5:45pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/musk-thinks-there-is-fraud-in-social-security/112992/22 "2025-02-03T17:45:17Z")
> [@buynholdisdead](#): > > Did you you or your brother admit that you were in the country illegally? I believe they were here legally on student visas. Strictly not legally able to start a business or work for money. How many other naturalized citizens or green-card holders would be “illegal” using the same criteria? I’m guessing at millions. Many folks came here with a somewhat “unclear” status and worked to get it resolved in time. Let’s not go down the road of deporting them all also. Musk is despicable. He’s not “illegal” from an immigration perspective. ---
**Author:** ![AdrianC](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/adrianc/32/4898_2.png) [@AdrianC](https://discussion.fool.com/u/AdrianC)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 5:47pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/musk-thinks-there-is-fraud-in-social-security/112992/23 "2025-02-03T17:47:01Z")
> [@bjurasz](#): > > Musk violated his original VISA, thus making him an illegal alien. See response above. A very dangerous slippery slope for us libs to go down ---
**Author:** ![rainphakir](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/rainphakir/32/1497_2.png) [@rainphakir](https://discussion.fool.com/u/rainphakir)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 5:47pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/musk-thinks-there-is-fraud-in-social-security/112992/24 "2025-02-03T17:47:35Z")
What do you think I should specifically be doing? 🤔 ralph ---
**Author:** ![buynholdisdead](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/buynholdisdead/32/12874_2.png) [@buynholdisdead](https://discussion.fool.com/u/buynholdisdead)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 5:58pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/musk-thinks-there-is-fraud-in-social-security/112992/25 "2025-02-03T17:58:55Z")
> [@AdrianC](#): > > I believe they were here legally on student visas. Strictly not legally able to start a business or work for money. This really isn’t up for debate. I gave you a link to where his brother admitted, and Elon tried to shut him up, that they were here illegally. > [@AdrianC](#): > > Musk is despicable. He’s not “illegal” from an immigration perspective. Not at this point in time but right is right. ---
**Author:** ![buynholdisdead](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/buynholdisdead/32/12874_2.png) [@buynholdisdead](https://discussion.fool.com/u/buynholdisdead)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 6:01pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/musk-thinks-there-is-fraud-in-social-security/112992/26 "2025-02-03T18:01:21Z")
> [@rainphakir](#): > > What do you think I should specifically be doing? Sorry Ralph I don’t tell people what to do anymore. I let them do what they think is right. I already did what I am going to do but I am not an activist anymore. I retired from that role. ---
**Author:** ![bjurasz](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/bjurasz/32/7233_2.png) [@bjurasz](https://discussion.fool.com/u/bjurasz)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 6:06pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/musk-thinks-there-is-fraud-in-social-security/112992/27 "2025-02-03T18:06:35Z")
> [@rainphakir](#): > > What do you think I should specifically be doing? You could start by admitting that what Musk and Trump is doing is illegal. ---
**Author:** ![rainphakir](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/rainphakir/32/1497_2.png) [@rainphakir](https://discussion.fool.com/u/rainphakir)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 6:16pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/musk-thinks-there-is-fraud-in-social-security/112992/28 "2025-02-03T18:16:15Z")
> [@bjurasz](#): > > You could start by admitting that what Musk and Trump is doing is illegal. Oh good grief. I’m not a legal or constitutional scholar. I do NOT know if it’s legal or illegal. So, no, I cannot ‘admit’ . Anything else I should do? 🙂 ralph I wonder what Musk’s dive into Treasury and SS and AID and ??? will reveal? ---
**Author:** ![bjurasz](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/bjurasz/32/7233_2.png) [@bjurasz](https://discussion.fool.com/u/bjurasz)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 6:45pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/musk-thinks-there-is-fraud-in-social-security/112992/29 "2025-02-03T18:45:16Z")
> [@rainphakir](#): > > I do NOT know if it’s legal or illegal. You don’t know, even after reading all the above, or can’t Google for yourself, if a private citizen unappointed by Congress has the legal ability to force an agency of the government (such as the Treasury) not not pay monies allocated lawfully by Congress to be paid? That’s your stance? ---
**Author:** ![mschmit](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/mschmit/32/1404_2.png) [@mschmit](https://discussion.fool.com/u/mschmit)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 6:48pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/musk-thinks-there-is-fraud-in-social-security/112992/30 "2025-02-03T18:48:00Z")
> [@buynholdisdead](#): > > If this stands this will be the law of the land. Everyone should be mad about this because now every President will be able to do this. {sorry, not to go too far off topic} Sort of like creating the Office of College Loan Forgiveness? And, IIRC legally basing it on a National Emergency. I agree that during Covid it was appropriate to defer payments and interest. But not just cancelling loans outright. Certainly, one can debate the need for a better way to help higher education, etc. But then super easy access to loans may just help schools charge more. Bottom line: IMO Congress needs to actually ACT to prevent the executive branch from reaching too far, on both sides. Mike ---
**Author:** ![buynholdisdead](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/buynholdisdead/32/12874_2.png) [@buynholdisdead](https://discussion.fool.com/u/buynholdisdead)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 6:53pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/musk-thinks-there-is-fraud-in-social-security/112992/31 "2025-02-03T18:53:20Z")
> [@mschmit](#): > > Sort of like creating the Office of College Loan Forgiveness? > And, IIRC legally basing it on a National Emergency. I agree that during Covid it was appropriate to defer payments and interest. But not just cancelling loans outright. I agree Mike and I wasn’t happy about that either. > [@mschmit](#): > > Bottom line: IMO Congress needs to actually ACT to prevent the executive branch from reaching too far, on both sides. I agree they haven’t been doing their job. Both parties have been feckless and cowardly. But that doesn’t mean I have to be. ---
**Author:** ![Tamhas](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/tamhas/32/4672_2.png) [@Tamhas](https://discussion.fool.com/u/Tamhas)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 7:00pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/musk-thinks-there-is-fraud-in-social-security/112992/32 "2025-02-03T19:00:34Z")
> [@steve203](#): > > payment approval officers at Treasury were instructed always to approve payments, even to known fraudulent or terrorist groups,” he wrote on X. “They literally never denied a payment in their entire career. Not even once.” Might this be because those are not the people whose job it is to validate the claim? ---
**Author:** ![Tamhas](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/tamhas/32/4672_2.png) [@Tamhas](https://discussion.fool.com/u/Tamhas)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 7:08pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/musk-thinks-there-is-fraud-in-social-security/112992/33 "2025-02-03T19:08:09Z")
> [@rainphakir](#): > > I’m willing to give him a chance to get rid of the fraud. Fraud as it appears to Elon or fraud as determined by a court? ---
**Author:** ![dividends20](https://g.foolcdn.com/misc-assets/discourse-member-avatar_120px_gold700.png) [@dividends20](https://discussion.fool.com/u/dividends20)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 7:16pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/musk-thinks-there-is-fraud-in-social-security/112992/34 "2025-02-03T19:16:33Z")
> > > KanekoaTheGreat @KanekoaTheGreat ---
**Author:** ![rainphakir](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/rainphakir/32/1497_2.png) [@rainphakir](https://discussion.fool.com/u/rainphakir)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 7:23pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/musk-thinks-there-is-fraud-in-social-security/112992/35 "2025-02-03T19:23:02Z")
I’m not going to claim any such thing. You need a bona fide legal expert to answer your questions. here’s my decision tree: Something to be ‘done’. - judge if 'what Musk and Trump are doing legal or illegal? Please note that I’m going with strictly LEGAL. Not an ‘emotional gut’ want-it-to-be feeling. - Is it doable? - - No, then full stop. - - Yes. then who’s responsibility to do it? Answer - Yes. so… Bona fide legal, and constitutional experts in a Court room, with a Judge with the ‘correct’ expertise. Can ralph do it? - no. full stop. This where this ‘decision’ stops for me, for this question. But, if ‘yes’ then I go here: - yes - - is it ralph’s to do? - - - no. full stop. - - - Yes - - - does ralph want to do it? - - - - no. full stop. but, if it only gets done if ralph actually does it, regardless of ‘don’t want to’… then ralph will do it. - - - - yes. then ralph will do it. So. What else you got? Anything? 🙂 ralph ---
**Author:** ![rainphakir](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/rainphakir/32/1497_2.png) [@rainphakir](https://discussion.fool.com/u/rainphakir)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 7:28pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/musk-thinks-there-is-fraud-in-social-security/112992/36 "2025-02-03T19:28:00Z")
> [@Tamhas](#): > > fraud as determined by a court? Are you claiming it won’t be determined by a court? Personally, I see LOTS of courtroom time coming. Will it make it to the USSC within 4 years? 🙂 ralph ---
**Author:** ![Hawkwin](https://g.foolcdn.com/misc-assets/discourse-member-avatar_120px_green600.png) [@Hawkwin](https://discussion.fool.com/u/Hawkwin)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 7:34pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/musk-thinks-there-is-fraud-in-social-security/112992/37 "2025-02-03T19:34:40Z")
> [@rainphakir](#): > > I wonder what Musk’s dive into Treasury and SS and AID and ??? will reveal? Why would you think it would be anything more substantial than what Inspector Generals - people trained to find such - from both parties over the last 20 years didn’t uncover? Ya, know, like this guy? [Eric Thorson - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Thorson) - Thorson is a graduate of the [United States Air Force Academy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Air_Force_Academy). - He served in the [Department of the Air Force](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Department_of_the_Air_Force) as Acting Assistant Secretary and twice as Deputy Assistant Secretary. - Special Assistant to the [Senate Republican Leader](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senate_Republican_Leader), Chief Investigator for the [Senate Finance Committee](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senate_Finance_Committee) and Chief Investigator for the [Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senate_Permanent_Subcommittee_on_Investigations). - [Office of Personnel Management](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Personnel_Management) (worked as a senior advisor to the [Director for Investigative Operations and Agency Planning](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Director_for_Investigative_Operations_and_Agency_Planning&action=edit&redlink=1)) - Inspector General for the [Small Business Administration](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_Business_Administration). He served from 2008 through 2019. Or maybe his replacement, nominated by Trump: > **[Richard K. Delmar | Institute for Human Centered Design](https://www.humancentereddesign.org/about-us/team/richard-k-delmar)** > > Rich Delmar is the Deputy Inspector General of the Department of the Treasury. He has been Deputy IG and Counsel, and additionally served as media and legislative liaison and whistleblower program coordinator. > Earlier in his career, Rich served on... > **[U.S. Department of the Treasury, Office of Inspector General](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Department_of_the_Treasury,_Office_of_Inspector_General)** > > The U.S. Department of the Treasury Office of Inspector General (Treasury OIG) is one of the Inspector General offices created by the Inspector General Act Amendments of 1988. The Inspector General for the Department of the Treasury is charged with investigating and auditing department programs to combat waste, fraud, and abuse. > > This government agency–related article is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it. You seem to think that they were somehow deficient in their duties but Musk’s crack team of [high school graduates](https://www.yahoo.com/news/elon-puts-kid-just-graduated-180045885.html) will get the job done. ---
**Author:** ![bjurasz](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/bjurasz/32/7233_2.png) [@bjurasz](https://discussion.fool.com/u/bjurasz)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 7:42pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/musk-thinks-there-is-fraud-in-social-security/112992/38 "2025-02-03T19:42:44Z")
> [@rainphakir](#): > > Are you claiming it won’t be determined by a court? We are claiming that it MUST be determined by a court before any of this can be cancelled. Especially by a private citizen. Nothing has been proven to be illegal or fraudulent yet. Only the word of a Ketamine addict. Why is this so hard to wrap your head around? ---
**Author:** ![rainphakir](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/rainphakir/32/1497_2.png) [@rainphakir](https://discussion.fool.com/u/rainphakir)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 7:45pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/musk-thinks-there-is-fraud-in-social-security/112992/39 "2025-02-03T19:45:51Z")
> [@Hawkwin](#): > > You seem to think that Do you do a lot of ‘projecting’ on to others? 🙂 ralph ---
**Author:** ![rainphakir](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/rainphakir/32/1497_2.png) [@rainphakir](https://discussion.fool.com/u/rainphakir)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 7:46pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/musk-thinks-there-is-fraud-in-social-security/112992/40 "2025-02-03T19:46:36Z")
so… you really got nothing? 🙂 ralph [Previous page](https://discussion.fool.com/t/musk-thinks-there-is-fraud-in-social-security/112992.md?page=1) [Next page](https://discussion.fool.com/t/musk-thinks-there-is-fraud-in-social-security/112992.md?page=3)