MY portfolio at the end of Oct 2019

Formatting error on Zoom. This is how it should have read:


**Op Cash Flow (millions of dollars)	Yr Total ($)**
**2017:  						 9** 
**2018:  						19** 
**2019:  	03	 14				51**
**2020:   22	 31** 

**TTM Op Cash Flow is thus currently $87 million**

**Free Cash Flow (millions of dollars)	Yr Total**
**2018:	   					xx**
**2019:   -01	 08				30**
**2020:	 15	 17** 

**TTM Free Cash Flow is thus $55 million.Note that those cash flow numbers are positive numbers!** 
**I don’t think that any other of our SaaS companies have cash flow numbers like those**

Saul

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Thanks Saul. The performance reviews by you and some of the others on this board are one of my favorite things about it.

I was always in positive territory for the year, with my lowest daily reading being up 9.9% year-to-date (roughly 2% more than the average annual rise for the S&P to put it in perspective).

Another perspective on this that this 2% really turns out to be 25% (2% divided into 7.9%). In other words, if this difference was maintained in just three years your return would be double that of the S&P.

Not too shabby!

All of your efforts are much appreciated. Take care.

Jeb

4 Likes

I was always in positive territory for the year, with my lowest daily reading being up 9.9% year-to-date (roughly 2% more than the average annual rise for the S&P to put it in perspective).

Another perspective on this that this 2% really turns out to be 25% (2% divided into 7.9%). In other words, if this difference was maintained in just three years your return would be double that of the S&P.

Not sure how you reached that conclusion Jeb. If I did 25% better than the S&P each year, that’s not additive.

If the S&P compounds 8% growth per year for three years it would be up a total of 26% (1.08 x 1.08 x 1.08 = 1.26)

If my portfolio compounds 10% growth per year for three years it would be up 33% (1.10 x 1.10 x 1.10 = 1.33)

After three years I would only have grown 27% more than the S&P, not double. (33% growth divided by 26% growth = 1.27)

If you meant four years, it would be growth of 36% for the S&P and 46.4% for me, which would mean I was 29% ahead of the S&P.

Best,

Saul

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I was using the Rule of 72 (incorrectly). I was figuring if your returns are 25% more when compounded you double in 3 years, but I see my error.

Always learning.

Jeb

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Saul,
Thanks once again for a detailed and highly informative report. I know I am not alone in expressing deep appreciation for the fact that you so freely share your thoughts and wisdom gained from years of successful investing experience. I’ve followed this board nearly since its inception. I always look forward to and carefully read your posts and especially your monthly summaries (and occasional mid-month activity reports). I am not nearly as interested in your positions as I am in your lucid explanations of why you hold and why you trade.

I am sure you are aware that I do not post my portfolio and seldom state my trade activity. It is not that I am selfish or embarrassed or any of those kinds of reasons. It is primarily that I don’t feel that I have a lot of new information to add, especially with respect to financial analysis. My strengths and therefore my contributions are largely based on 30 years of experience in a very large IT shop where I closed my career in a position of high influence over the direction of the corporation with regard to data/information management (I wrote the approved definitions for my company that distinguished between data and information. In condensed form, if it is manipulated by a machine, it’s data. If it is perceptible to and consumable by a human, it’s information).

Even though my experience base with respect to the specific technologies is rapidly growing stale and I make little effort to KUTD as I was pretty well burnt out when I retired, I still have a pretty good understanding of the basic technologies and I feel a good deal of the historical perspective I gained is still relevant. I also feel that having been close to the internal decision making process in IT for most of my career my experience is relevant because even as the technology rapidly changes, I have reasonably high confidence that management decisions remain driven by the same factors that they were for virtually my entire career. The specific technologies play a role, but they are just another factor, certainly not the only one and often not even the deciding one.

I am also very familiar with the mindset of techies. Over my career I saw many people come and go. I was one of the “old guard” that remained in the company, though my role in IT went through many changes. IMO, irrespective of chronological age, techies share a lot of common characteristics. Even though they are not the decision makers, they play a significant role in the decisions that get made because they form the knowledge pool that must be taken into consideration when big decisions are made. So, my experience is the basis of my contributions to this board. It is far more relevant now than it was when we were investing in sneakers and home builders.

On to observations - - -

One thing I’ve been slow to pick up on is what you appear to mean with the words “when the story changes.” Most of the time, this applies to the specific company you are talking about, but I’ve discovered that not too infrequently it is the relative story rather than the specific story. What I mean by that is you have no income stream and hence no new money for investing. And, you like me, stay fully invested or nearly so most of the time. So when you wish to make a new purchase, the money has to come from somewhere. That means you’ve got to sell something. But, you already feel that you are invested in the best and smartest investment out there. That presents somewhat of a conundrum.

Along comes Zoom (I’m long), Datadog (I’m long), Coupa (no position) and you want to invest in these companies as you feel the opportunity is too good to pass up, but in order to do so, you are forced to take a hard critical look at all your current category crushers in order to decide what to sell in order to raise the cash for the new investment. Sometimes, the decision isn’t that hard as there was some new news during a recent conference call or from a competitor that makes the decision a bit easier. But sometimes you’re decision is not driven by news that directly reflects on the companies you end up selling (i.e., Alteryx). The decision is a relative one in which you compare your current portfolio positions with respect to the new opportunity. Maybe, as in the example just cited, it’s based on the dominance of one position. Maybe you’ve lost patience with a growth lull (i.e., Mongo, you even said you know this is not a valid reason to sell, but it was your reason).

Personally, I find pulling the trigger to sell a far more difficult decision (most the time) than the decision to buy. Buying (unless I’m adding to a position) always involves a new, unfamiliar relationship. Selling is shedding (in whole or in part) and established, familiar relationship. I’m hard wired to remain loyal to established relationships. It’s difficult for me to treat my investment relationships differently than the way I deal with life in general. I continue to learn from you, sometimes slowly.

But it is these relative decisions that set us apart. Let me explain. During my career I watched two database products dominate the industry. First, the IBM product, IMS DB/TP (that translates to Information Management System Database/Teleprocessing). IMS was not the only database product, but it was by far the dominant one. So far as I know, it only ran on IBM equipment, or near end of life IBM OS compatible equipment made by IBM competitors (we had a couple of red boxes in our predominantly blue shop. I have no idea if IMS was hosted on them). At the time I was pretty young but I was a spec writer and tester. I didn’t write code and I wasn’t a DBA. What I observed was folks around my age or younger come into the shop fresh out of college. They’d gather 12 - 18 months training at the company’s expense and work on usually only one development project and then market their newly gained, high demand skills to another company (virtually never a competitor), getting a significant salary boost in the process. It was not all that unusual to see the same face return 12 - 18 months later at an even greater salary. The knowledge pool that got built up around IMS (as well as the fact that it was an IBM product - “no manager ever got fired for buying Blue” was a common saying) helped cement it as the dominant database product. I doubt that all the competition combined matched IMS sales figures (that’s pretty much a WAG, but an “educated” WAG). But, IMS had a fatal flaw. It was modeled the same way business organizations are built. It was hierarchical. I won’t digress into an explanation of why this is bad, trust me, it has the potential of creating a lot of data integrity problems. And that potential often became a reality. GIGO - garbage in, garbage out. When you’ve got different outputs, some of which are supposed to share the same values but it doesn’t, which one are you going to trust?

But data integrity problems alone did not lead to the demise of IMS. There were lots of other organizational reasons (sometimes called “data silos”) that created these problems. Faulty database design was not really the main culprit. The biggest flaw for IMS was that it only ran on big metal. A new paradigm in computing began to take hold. It was smaller, geographically distributed boxes linked together via a network and the UNIX operating system that eventually killed IMS. As I mentioned. IMS was designed to run in the data center on “big metal”. Oracle (and numerous competitive products) was designed to run under UNIX. It was years before Oracle came out with a relational DBMS that could be hosted on IBM mainframes.

Even though the relational model was created by an IBM mathematician, IBM was slow to develop a relational DBMS. They were caught in the common dilemma of slaughtering a cash cow in order to keep up with innovation. However, the argument for distributed computing under UNIX took hold more rapidly than most observers initially thought possible. It was technically up to the challenge of supporting the computing needs of mainline, mission critical business processes, and the ability to incrementally scale capacity while (more or less) avoiding hardware vendor lock-in due to the common OS was just too financially compelling. Incidentally, I was the manager in charge of the group that established internal standards for applications (written in C, a computer code that one of my gurus referred to as a write only language) and database design (with Oracle as the DBMS) when the company I worked at transitioned to distributed UNIX architecture.

Why did Oracle, in the face of a lot of competition quickly become the undisputed winner? Well, partly is was the technology. UNIX is not vanilla. We had a standard of “POSIX compliant”, but virtually every vendor claimed POSIX compliance - - - with extensions. In other words, every vendor’s flavor of UNIX was in some ways different. Ellison offered several flavors of Oracle so it ran on machines from the most dominant vendors: IBM, HP, Sun and I thing two or three others. And then there was Larry Ellison. He was a charismatic tech leader who had the ability to smile and tell convincing lies through his teeth. Oracle rapidly issued new upgrades (which were upsells) with the claims of all sorts of new, highly desired functionality that was often too buggy to use. But, with a fair degree of reliability, bugs from the previous version were generally repaired. So with each upgrade you were really buying the reliable functionality of the previous version and maybe some new, usable features. As you might imagine, this kept my database standards group very busy.

Why am I relating all this history? In a word, Mongo. I’ve seen this movie twice before. First with IMS which didn’t offer a separate investment thesis and then again with Oracle which did offer a fantastic investment thesis, but I just wasn’t into investing at the time. But the latest sequel to this movie is Mongo. You might have your doubts as to whether or not it’s the clear winner, but having watched the movie close up before, I haven’t any. Especially since the release of Atlas that runs under AWS, GCP and Asure. It will take a colossal management screw up (always possible) to unseat and inhibit the long term growth of Mongo (which is a stupid name IMO, oh well).

What I’m saying in a rather long winded manner is we can see what makes horse races. Saul gives Mongo 4.5 stars out of six. I’d give it 7 stars out of 6. Of course, Saul and I are both getting on in years. He has a few years on me and neither of us may live to see this whole movie. So maybe impatience with the here and now is warranted. Each passing quarter of “I could’ve done better if I were more impatient with X and more aggressive with Y” is a quarter we won’t see again.

Is the race between quarter horses or milers? It makes a difference.

129 Likes

Mine is a shortwinded response to Zscaler plus a question

So here I am, with Zscaler, with a tailwind of inevitability, sure, but who is asking huge enterprises to revamp their entire security systems, and which has a lot of temporary obstacles in its path which may cause growth rates to diminish in the near term, like desperate large competitors, customer IT departments that don’t want to lose their jobs, and enterprise CEO’s who don’t really understand security… while I have other companies, growing like mad, and without these execution problems, so it made sense for me to reduce the size of my Zscaler position from huge to just large (and it is still a large position), and to use the cash to buy into companies like Coupa and Datadog. There isn’t any relationship at all to “momentum,” but rather it’s evaluating what is going on and acting on it. So far it’s been a good call as Zscaler is currently at $42.86, considerably lower than it was when I sold.

Your take on IT departments is spot on! I’ve been on both sides, selling and buying IT and I know from this experience the incredibly powerful influence IT departments exert, not necessarily for the benefit of the hand that feeds them. Complexity is the enemy of adoption and so is stonewalling by IT departments. Good call!

The long term prospect is real but how long did it take Mac to recover from IT stonewalling in the mid 1980s? Fifteen, twenty years?

The question: do you recall what made you rotate from banks, shoes, and other industries to SaaS? I’d love to hear that story.

Thanks,

Denny Schlesinger

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The question: do you recall what made you rotate from banks, shoes, and other industries to SaaS? I’d love to hear that story.

Hi Denny, to tell the truth, I can’t really remember. I do remember that I got of BOFI because I thought it was sleazy and skating on the edge and hiring people with very doubtful pasts, etc. I got out of Skechers because when I was buying a pair in a Skechers’ store they gave me something like 40% off all of them if I would by three pairs (as I remember it). It’s also the problem with anyone who builds stores. You run out of good places to put them quickly and you start cannibalizing one store with another. And you can grow the number of stores by 50% at first but a couple of years of that and you are having to build impossible numbers of them to continue growth. The store I bought those shoes at closed down this year, by the way. I should mention that I still wear ONLY Skechers shoes, because they are so comfortable.
Best,
Saul

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I should mention that I still wear ONLY Skechers shoes, because they are so comfortable.

Last December I visited Curaçao and bought a pair of Skechers shoes. Now in Portugal I bought a pair of locally made leather shoes for the Winter at half the price. They are half as comfortable! :wink:

Denny Schlesinger

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Brittlerock and Friends,

Forgive Monkey for writing yet another message of appreciation, but it has to be done. Your post(s) above about your real-world, hard-won experience in the IT world and how that translates into a 7 star confidence level in MDB is exactly the kind of investing information that the bots, the wall-street analysts, the momentum gamblers, the literal gamblers, or anyone else, really, doesn’t have access to. The actual banana value of this information and the generosity of spirit with which you share it is way beyond the pay grade of my abacus.

But this analysis narrative does actually translate into an actual reality bound category I call “Sleep-Well-at Night” meaning a stock equity holding which will go down and up according to market whimsy in the short term, but about which zero flying rotten bananas are given in the long term, hence the capacity to sleep well in some high-up branches in the jungle while the rest of the critters go on screeching and making a ruckus.

Sleeping Well at Night is a very high priority for Monkey, thereby allowing his position in Mongo to reach the Top 3 level––and, currently after reading what you wrote above––gets Monkey further thinking about what would preclude it from reaching the very tippity-top of the tree-line?

So thank you Brittlerock and Saul for your continued quest to fill Monkey’s banana bucket while simultaneously being able to catch a lovely snooze in his hammock without the greying of his fur.

With gratitude,

Monkey (substantial position in MDB and about to get higher, odds are)

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Saul,

I have read several times that you bought in and out of a stock… Like MDB. Have you ever analyzed how you would have fared had you stuck with your original purchases? I am not talking about when you get out all together, like with Sketchers, but when you vacillate on a holding.

Gordon

1 Like

It is always possible in theory to be more perfect … but one works without hindsight and with the whims of the market, so second guessing is an exercise in futility.

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Tamhas,

My question is not about having second sight, or even second guessing yourself. It does have to do with psychology, however. If after trading In and out of thesame stocks numerous times, but find you would have been better off staying with your first inclination, than perhaps you will have learned something.

I try to learn something from each of my trades. Self analysis can be a good thing.

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Saul - first thank you so much for your post. I am learning a lot. I mistakenly have known about this board for about 6 years and have not pulled the trigger on reading the knowledgebase til now. I was too focussed on trading which takes up too much time and I am not successful at it. Had I followed the recommendations here, I would be much richer. Live and learn. I hope you are around for many more years for us all to learn more.

Saul/brittlerock

But it is these relative decisions that set us apart. Let me explain. During my career I watched two database products dominate the industry. First, the IBM product, IMS DB/TP (that translates to Information Management System Database/Teleprocessing). IMS was not the only database product

Why am I relating all this history? In a word, Mongo.

I want place an addendum here and say I believe you are both correct in the potential success of Mongo but for other reasons.

I work in Software Engineering and have done so for 20+ years. I started coding large enterprise systems in Java and over the years have learned lots of different languages (JavaScript, Scala, Kotlin etc.) and now lead teams of engineerings on high throughput, low latency, critical systems.

My experience of Mongo as a company (10Gen a few years ago) has been appalling - they tried to modify our NDA during evaluation stage to take any IP of new products they discovered while working with us and removed any of our rights to those products. It leaves a bitter taste still.

At the same time, there was an explosion by an anonymous blog post stating everything wrong with MongoDB including cascading failures, faulty data integrity (transactions reporting as completed when they weren’t) etc. All 10Gen’s CTO could say was “what are the support ticket numbers?” A pathetic response, at best. For those of you that don’t know, data integrity is key in any system. Without it, we just get the wrong answers and tracking down WHY is extremely difficult.

Now let’s turn to today. Mongo are going gangbusters. They now have transactions spanning clusters and I have found on their own JIRA board with just a few seconds of searching a couple of bugs submitted saying it is terrible at best.

BUT

this does not matter.

IMO, IT execs look at features such as cloud agnostic, Atlas, full text search and any other products that will get them up and running quickly for a fast route to market/solution to their issues. They want to alleviate their pain quickly.

If the Mongo issues I described emerge, by that point there is a general consensus in the company of “the engineers have to fix it” and the Mongo contract has already been signed.

They clearly have a fantastic sales arm and product strategy. From an engineer’s POV, their tech execution leaves us wanting.

The sales decision is disjoined from the production performance of the system the Mongo products are used in but it doesn’t matter.

The metrics say it all and I plan on opening a position in Mongo too.

Thanks again for everyone’s contributions.

Much appreciated.

29 Likes

Point being that I perceive Saul as someone who isn’t likely to worry about things like that. He makes buy and sell decisions based on what seems right at the time. Occasionally, he may go in and out and in again, but not often and always because it seems like the right thing to do at the time. Even if it turns out that staying in the whole time would have been a good thing, one would have to compare it with what was done with the money while he was out, which easily could have been better yet. And, supposing on some particular occasion it would have been better to stay in, changing that would require changing the rules of how he makes decisions about in or out … rules that have been working pretty d**m well up to now.

To be sure, less experienced investors might well learn a lesson or two about being less jumpy, but Saul? :slight_smile:

Saul, Congrats !! keep inspiring and helping the community here. I am a newbie. Could not find the announcements panel to read the knowledge base. Could you please share the link or screenshot?

Thanks,

Look to the right side of this page------------------------------------------> for knowledge base

Datadog just started the last day of Sept, and it is now a 12.3% position, and my third largest, in just a month. I can’t remember ever building a position as quickly as that, except perhaps Alteryx, almost two years ago.

Hi Saul,

I have to wonder why such a large position in DDOG. I look at the following as negatives:

  1. no real evidence of moving toward profitability: last 10 quarters of operating margin (oldest to recent):
    -3%, -7%, -1%, -2%, -1%, 0%, -9%, -11%, -14%, -4%. These numbers are not horrible but they have been moving in the wrong direction for the 4 quarters.

  2. DDOG seems really expensive compared to other companies. EV/Sales is 37 which is almost twice as high as AYX and considerably higher than CRWD even though CRWD is growing faster with slightly higher gross margins.

I think people pay attention when you take a huge position quickly. If I recall your Alteryx purchases correctly, I don’t recall you buying in that much (pretty it grew into a larger position through appreciation). I have a tiny 1% position in DDOG but it seems really expensive compared to our alternatives. I’d love to hear what is it about DDOG that you like so much. I think you must think that growth will remain really high for a while. Thanks.

Chris

33 Likes

If I recall your Alteryx purchases correctly, I don’t recall you buying in that much (pretty it grew into a larger position through appreciation).

That happens not to be correct. In Saul’s month-end summary for December 2017, the first one where he owned Alteryx, it was a 12.1% position.

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Whoa…

As a real estate developer with only basic knowledge of the engineering concepts that are often discussed on this board, I must say that I come away from Hyperion’s reply to this post a bit confused.

Hyperion; when somebody of your background and experience posts on this message board, I tend to listen closely, try to learn something and then weigh the opinions of educated and experienced professional such as yourself when evaluating my holdings (i.e. Mongo).

I am wondering if I have the correct take-away from your post. It seems to me as if you are saying:

  • Your experience with Mongo was appalling,
  • You worked with Mongo on a professional level and was left with a bitter taste in your mouth
  • You are aware of other engineers that have posted horrible things about Mongo on various tech-boards,

However,

  • all of this does not matter to you because Mongo has a really slick sales team,
  • the customer wants to be up and running quickly and Mongo can give deliver customers an inferior product that gets them there,
  • then, once the proverbial poo hits the fan; Mongo is out and dumps all the bugs and issues on the customers’ engineers
  • But, your going to overlook all of that because the “metrics say it all”

Is that really the thesis in a nutshell? Or, am I missing something?

Harley

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Hyperion may want to talk about the timeframe when all this happened. I know MDB had a shaky start and bad reputation years ago but they have turned their image around.

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