NEETs are a Macro burden

Investment Analysis Clubs Macro Economic Trends and Risks
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METARs have discussed the problem of finding future workers as the birth rate is declining. Many potential workers are NEETs: not in employment, education, or training. The problem is international.

This article is Canadian. In the U.S. a NEET would not be considered statistically “unemployed” unless they were actively seeking employment. The figure would show up in the Labor Force Participation Rate which counts everyone whether or not they are actively seeking employment.

Labor Force Participation Rate - 16-19 Yrs.

Labor Force Participation Rate - 20-24 Yrs.

Not Working, Not Studying, Not Happy: Meet the NEETs

Why are so many young people struggling to finish education or find a job?

by Nathan Abraha, The Walrus, Updated 8:02, Feb. 27, 2025

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A NEET is a person not in employment, education, or training…

According to Statistics Canada, 11 percent of Canadian youth, those in the fifteen to twenty-nine age range, fall under the label…

Those at the greatest risk of being considered NEETs often have low academic qualifications, poor mental health, a disability or special education needs, or have become a parent at a relatively young age. The Global Employment Trends for Youth 2024 report showed that despite some improvements, post-COVID-19 recovery for youth employment has not been universal. About one in five young people worldwide were NEET in 2023. Even those without the label are struggling: almost half of those with jobs have only informal employment. Meanwhile, a World Values Survey found that about 64 percent of young people aged fifteen to twenty-nine globally were worried about losing their job…

A high number of NEETs reported a mental health or physical condition, or both, as impacting their day-to-day lives, with 64.5 percent of participants in the Blueprint survey reporting these factors as having to be taken care of before finding employment. A high number of NEETs also have kids and families they’re supporting, with 15 percent reporting needing support with their children. …[end quote]

Some NEETs will never be employable. Others would probably be employable if they were forced to work to survive. (Many can’t find work in their field of study but they could probably find jobs if the alternative was starvation.) They are all a Macro burden (along with their kids who receive outside support). (I’m sure that Steve will be outraged by this statement since he hates the “JCs” who exploit labor. :wink: )

The U.S. needs immigrant labor to do the hard work that NEETs won’t do.
Wendy

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I never understood this statement until I moved down to Nevada. Nobody does their own yards and if you do people are saying to you why would you do that? Everyone has an immigrant cleaning up their yards. It is amazing.

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Sheesh I just thought about it. I do as well being in a condo complex.

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Hence work requirements for public assistance. The roundups of brown people fell out of the daily news cycle quickly, but the administration is constantly making noise about scaling up the roundups. Someone needs to replace the deportees.

Steve

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All it takes is photos of Mexican farm workers picking produce on U.S. farms. Not to mention spending 9 days in the hospital (as I did in November) where at least 95% of the staff is foreign-born, many from Africa. (Working hard and doing a good job.)

Wendy

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I think there should be work requirements for people of sound mind and body to get public assistance. Why would a lazy person get out of bed to work if they were paid for lying on their back?

I had a cousin who was mentally retarded (or whatever today’s politically-correct term is). He took pride in working full-time as a dishwasher in a restaurant for decades. (He died in the mid-1970s.) The state paid for him to room with a family who took care of his routine needs but he paid for his own clothes and possessions. Much cheaper for the state than institutionalizing him (which was common at the time). He took a lot of pride in his work, was always well-groomed and well-liked by all.

Nowadays, working people can get all kinds of subsidies, from SNAP (food stamps) to child care tax refunds to the Earned Income Tax Credit. These subsidies help them make ends meet and weren’t available to the poor in years gone by.

Wendy

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I used to work right along side them in the Cherry orchards. Look back in the dust bowl days. Men use to go to farm to farm across the country bucking bales. That doesn’t happen anymore. That is one reason they had to go to rolled bales. People now think I can’t do that it is to hard. It’s a mind set. Plus why would you want to work for 15 dollars when you can make 30?

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The issue is not the requirement. The issue is those who insist on the requirement have other motives.

The wedge issues always sound reasonable. But the goals themselves are not reasonable at all.

We are witnessing a complete tearing down of the US economy.

The US economy is dependent on public goods and private goods. To strip out the public goods is to kill the economy. Welfare is measured out for economic purpose in the private sector. Who gets that welfare is reasoned out.

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Where do you set the minimum amount of “work” to qualify? 20 hrs per week? Or the 60hrs that I often worked? Or, no assistance program at all, so the person has to work as many hours as needed, to survive?

Steve

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@steve203 for people of sound mind and body, as as many hours as needed, to survive. I used to work until I felt ready to drop in my tracks, fatigued to the bone from climbing ladders and inspecting boilers in my job doing industrial water treatment in NJ. I lived in a little apartment in Yonkers. It always p!$$ed me off to see working-age men idling around on corners near bars.

If they work they can get the Earned Income Tax Credit, Medicaid and SNAP for food. I don’t believe in welfare for able-bodied people without children. (Single mothers are a different question.)

Wendy

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Would a person working a 6 day/60 hour week need assistance? How about someone working a 7 day/80 hour week? A person working 80 hours/week at $10/hour would gross over $40,000/year. A 60 hour week, at $10/hr would yield $31K/year. The Federal poverty level for a single person in 2025, is $15,650. A person working a 60-80 hours week would not be “poor”, so would not need assistance.

Steve

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Anyone making 31 thousand a year should not need assistance. Having a roommate or two and buying used until you climb the ladder is not unheard of.

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That is the whole point. It is possible to make enough to survive, by working menial jobs, for a lot of hours. Work the breakfast shift at Micky D’s, then work the afternoon/evening shift at Arby’s. On the go from 7am to 10pm, but the “JCs” aren’t “burdened” paying taxes for your sustenance.

Steve

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Steve not everyone gets a pool. Some people have it harder no doubt. I would say let them lead their life and give them the lift to get ahead. I have no problem with giving them Medicare, schooling in any trade school or any state college for 4 years. You can give people a hand up but it doesn’t have to be a hand out.

Of course if they can’t work well then that is a different story.

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This thread makes me feel we could use something reminiscent of the CCC - something that would never get approved in this political climate but was MASSIVELY successful during its time.

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That was a great program. I worked for the YCC building trails in Montana when I was 14. Dropped us off in the boonies and we built trails all summer long. They had a cook that came from the inner cities that made all of our meals. What a summer. Fished and worked, couldn’t spend a dime because there wasn’t anyplace to spend it.

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My uncle was in the CCC in the 30s. My dad was a little older, so had a job in hand, clerk at a coal company, when the depression started. Heat is not so much a luxury in NYC in the winter, so the coal company kept going.

The difference in the 30s was a surplus of labor. Now, every fast food place I see has a help wanted sign out. Half the times I try to patronize the one remaining Wendy’s in the area, the dining room is closed, because they don’t have enough staff.

Even if we had a surplus of labor, we have heard the pushback to programs like the CCC now “big gummit make work”, “raking leaves in the forest”. Then the conversation is, again, diverted to “if we give the job creators another tax cut, these people might get a job”.

Steve

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If people had to work to avoid starvation (as in the entirety of human history before today) there would be workers applying for those jobs. Even if they pay minimum wage (which they probably don’t) and/or are not excellent jobs. Especially young, entry-level workers who have low employment rates.

You may resent that but it’s a fact.

I did water treatment at chemical plants, steel mills and waste treatment plants. A job at Wendy’s is heaven compared with those.
Wendy

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Working at RS was even better. Clean, and quiet, place to work. You don’t work in a constant haze of grease from the deep fryers. A six day, sixty hour week is perfectly manageable, as long as you don’t try to have a life outside of work.

Steve

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I don’t know which post to reply to, but needed to share my frustration on this subject.

Personally, out of high school I worked 3 part time jobs because I couldn’t get a full time job with benefits, due to the economy, and this let me rent a room in someone’s house, spending about $5/week on enough groceries to make enough soup to keep from starving. I know tough times and I am stronger for getting through those tough times, absolutely appreciating the hand out from the WIC distributor who gave me a HUGE boost by giving me some excess food he had on hand, (1 lb butter, 1 lb honey, 5 lb Velveeta,) when too skinny me walked down the street. More than 4 decades later I still remember that unexpected kindness that I almost ignored as being hit on. Was so against the rules and so mind numbingly needed. Things were so bad, that when I was approached to become a high priced escort, I actually considered it. I was beautiful, cultured, spoke multiple languages fluently…and so crazy poor. No college diploma at the time and no ability to pay for an education. Also reluctant to give up the one thing I could control, in with whom I shared my bed.

Fast forward to last summer, getting to know one of DH’s best friends from high school. Clearly a smart person, she and her husband are keeping their income low enough to max out gov’t benefits. Many side jobs under the table. Infuriating. Had to grind my teeth and clench my fists to keep from lashing out at her bragging about beating the system.
These are the people Musk should be going after. They take funds away from supplying those who really need it.

There is fraud, and a need for a system that can catch that fraud. There is need for a hand up, and those that need it should not be doing without because of that fraud.

IP

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