OT: 2018 Toyota Camry to achieve 53-MPG

[https://www.kbb.com/car-news/all-the-latest/2018-toyota-camr...](https://www.kbb.com/car-news/all-the-latest/2018-toyota-camry-first-review/2100004320/)

Seems like a beautiful new design on the Camry. At $28,000 list price 
with 53-MPG and a 208-HP engine, can this vehicle realistically compete 
with the Tesla Model-3 elephant in the room? Certainly seems like Toyota 
is putting out a competitive product.

	    TSLA	TM
P/E	       -	9.76
FWD P/E	       -	10.49
P/B	   12.44	0.99
P/C	   15.85	1.59
Dividend       -	3.73%
Sales	   8.55B	248.83B
Income:	(722.90M)	16.42B
Debt/Eq	    1.44	1.09
9 Likes

Quite interesting.

There are a lot of angles that will help keep crude oil under $100 for quite sometime, it would appear.

At $28,000 list price with 53-MPG and a 208-HP engine, can this vehicle realistically compete
with the Tesla Model-3 elephant in the room?

Unlikely. People aren’t buying the Model 3 for fuel efficiency - they’re buying a better (read: non ICE, no dealership) automotive experience.

Plus, even the base level Model 3 will be quicker than the most powerful (and thirsty) V6 Camry.

But for a hybrid, seems like a nice car. I have a plug-in Prius which I’ve enjoyed (and average 62 mpg).

Even so, it’s not a Tesla. To compete with Tesla, Toyota will need a compelling EV (not hybrid) and a way for buyers to get a quick charge on long distance trips – see Tesla Supercharger network:

https://www.tesla.com/supercharger

But is Toyota a good investment? Hard to know - they seem committed to their quixotic fuel-cell adventure. For me it would depend on how quickly they ramp up full EV offerings and charging support. Also useful to look at energy trends where renewable-generated electricity is just getting cheaper and cheaper:

“Renewable energy sources are set to represent almost three quarters of the $10.2 trillion the world will invest in new power generating technology until 2040, thanks to rapidly falling costs for solar and wind power, and a growing role for batteries, including electric vehicle batteries, in balancing supply and demand.”

https://about.bnef.com/new-energy-outlook/

So the future looks bright for EVs. But aside from Tesla, hard to know the real contenders at this point.

  • Khleb
5 Likes

one test drive in both the Gen 3 and the hybrid Toyota will show all but the most numb driver the difference in driving experience. Add all the batteries you want to a Camry it will still to drive like an ICE most of the time. It will be noisier , sluggish, jerky and need more maintenance . Which is why 98% of people who have owned a BEV will not be satisfied with a hybrid.
Of course to many, driving experience is not important, cupholders ,or the color, or initial price are everything.To many cars are just appliances on wheels.

Having just completed a 2000 mile trip in my BEV, I think for that kind of long X way driving the ICE car is as good as a BEV, maybe better. But a non hybrid ICE is better than a hybrid for that use too. The main advantage of hybrid is urban mileage , and that is less important with gasoline being cheap At least in the US.
For urban or mixed driving it’s hard to beat a Tesla. The trip was to West Texas, where most drive a pick up truck, some a giant SUV, and cars are scarce. That is in a place with good roads and no snow. These consumers are choosing what their neighbors have, what they want, need does not deem to play a big part. So American, I loved it.

2 Likes

Follow-up to Khleb’s comments about the bright future for renewable energy sources (i.e., wind & solar) in base-load generating.

Interesting to note that renewable source energy base load plants are already coming on line at a price of about 3 cents/kwh, which is cheaper than coal and nuclear and only slightly higher than ngas. However, adding battery storage to these plants will add another 1.5 cents/kwh, but still about the same price as coal plants and cheaper than nuclear.
http://tucson.com/business/tucson/new-tucson-electric-solar-…

Nextera Energy (NYSE: NEE) is the contractor and systems integrator for the Tucson plant described in the link above. NEE and AES Energy (NYSE: AES) are the two utilities that are leading the way in combining wind and solar with lithium storage batteries for enterprise (i.e., grid-based) generating facilities that will steadily replace and displace coal and nuclear henceforth.

This past Friday NEE did their every-two-years public update event for investors, and the PDF of the slideshow presentations makes for fascinating (if exhausting) reading. A few takeaways from the conference were that: 1) enterprise wind plus solar produce energy at MUCH lower costs than does roof-top solar (so why bother to install on roofs at all), 2) coal plants continue to be decommissioned at rapid rate (3 by NEE alone within next 2 years), 3) wind plus solar plus battery storage will be disruptive force in power generation for next 25 years, and 4) as a result, power plant emissions and CO2 release will literally disappear altogether. Here’s the link to the presentations on NEE’s investor information (look for PDF of Investor Conference of 6/22/17):
http://www.investor.nexteraenergy.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=88486&…

ZuZu3

16 Likes

It would be interesting to consider some possible implications of the onset of the age of “cheap” wind/solar/batteries (WSB) as the emerging main source of grid power. Of course it definitely signals the eventual, almost total, abandonment of hydrocarbons not just in the grid but almost everywhere elsewhere as well.

  1. BEV replaces ICE in autos and trucks
  2. Base load and peaking electricity generating plants transition to WSB
  3. As electricity gets cheaper and cheaper all heating of buildings (both home & commercial) switches over to electricity
  4. the only remaining “havens” for hydrocarbons are as chemical feedstock for plastics, running blast furnaces, and possibly for big hydraulic construction equipment…oh and I almost forgot–charcoal for my BBQ grill!
4 Likes

Interesting to note that renewable source energy base load plants are already coming on line at a price of about 3 cents/kwh, which is cheaper than coal and nuclear and only slightly higher than ngas. However, adding battery storage to these plants will add another 1.5 cents/kwh, but still about the same price as coal plants and cheaper than nuclear.
http://tucson.com/business/tucson/new-tucson-electric-solar-…

There is some important verbiage distinction here. The article says that Tucson Electric Power will buy the electricity for 3 cents per kwh. It does not state the tax implications for NextEra, which likely includes a 30% up-front tax credit of their cost for the system.

1 Like