Stop shipping through the Red Sea. Or let those who choose to travel that route pay the price with lost cargoes.
Yes, it takes longer to travel around Africa instead of using the Suez Canal. And it burns more fuel, which increases the cost of shipping.
As a minor side benefit, it reduces the profit to Egypt of operating the Suez Canal because fewer ships would be using that route. If they want that profit back, let them deal with the attacks on shipping.
You think if we bring troops home from Iraq and Syria that the attacks on shipping will simply go away?
They might. Governments in the Middle East are tired of the US sticking our noses in their business. Maybe it’s time we stop.
I’m not talking full isolationist policies here, just reducing our presence in places we’re not wanted.
Really? The response to terrorism is capitulation?
The ships going through the Red Sea are not OURS. Letting them get attacked with no response is isolationist - and would only embolden those that get away with it.
What will be your response if the next attacks are launched from Morocco or Algeria effectively closing off the entirety of the Med?
Well, the last time we tried a full-on military response to terrorism, it didn’t go so well.
I think considering a different approach is a very reasonable thing to do.
That’s my point. They aren’t ours. We should be more than happy to join in a multi-national effort, but we’ve got to stop taking unilateral action. IMHO, an isolationist position would be to tell the ship owners it’s their problem and we won’t help.
This retribution approach is causing all sort of problems, both domestically and internationally. Gang violence is largely based on not letting the other guy get away with it - whatever that “it” may be. (“He dissed me. He can’t get away with that. We’ve gotta do something.”) The entirety of the various Middle East conflicts are all about retribution for age old perceived wrongs, constantly kept alive for the most recent slights and wrongs done by others.
We can’t keep trying to make people bend to our will. That just perpetuates ill will on both sides.
You built a strawman. We are already responding without it being an invasion and occupation of another country.
It IS a multi-national effort.
What will are we trying to bend? Don’t attack us? Is that really a bridge too far? You talk about retribution but the ships are not trying to get revenge. They simply want to go about their business. We are simply trying to protect them.
We are not trying to do regime change in Yemen over this. You conflate too much.
The fact that our Navy protects shipping lanes world-wide, including dangerous passages like the Suez etc. etc., is a relic of the end of WW II. It was our solution to a problem that fostered countries to side with us (against communism and Russia) as well as foster stable, safe, reliable global shipping and trade. It was wildly successful, especially compared to what was before that. Which was “my Navy protects my vessels, you are on your own”. So if you are a trading country w/o a navy you were kinda screwed.
What I’m saying is there are immense ramifications to us abandoning that role. Of pulling our Navy out, letting piracy and attacks happen on any ship that “isn’t ours”. Want to see shortages of goods that makes the COVID times seem minor? Want to see real inflation?
Those attacks first after US support of the elimination of the Palestinian people. They first attacked US warships then expanded to commercial shipping.
Perhaps if the US had not become involved & supported Israeli war upon the Palestinians the attacks made not have occurred.
Now Israel seems to be expanding its war into Lebanon.
Yeah I’m sure this is going to turn out well. Just like our war upon terror. LOL
OK. Certainly a multi-national marketing effort. But it was only US and UK militaries involved. The other 8 countries (and the UN, apparently) looked on and nodded in agreement.
My admittedly limited understanding is that the Houthis are basically a grievance movement. While they claim to be working for economic improvement, their main actions are mainly anti-Israel, anti-Saudi Arabia, and anti-US.
Pretty much everyone in the ME that is not Jewish is anti-Israel. That’s a grievance dating back at least a couple thousand years, re-ignited recently by the forcible taking of lands to create the current nation of Israel after WWII. That’s not getting fixed any time soon and is well beyond my pay grade.
Anti-Saudi makes a bit of sense, as the Saudis are a rich neighboring nation and an easy target for the economic ills of Yemen generally and the Houthis specifically. And the Saudis led a military intervention attempting to restore the previous government of Yeman after the Houthis worked with some other protest groups to overthrow that government back in 2011.
Anti-US is an easy add-on, as we’ve been allied with both Israel and the Saudis, providing military arms to both.
So the Houthis started attacking shipping supposedly to support the Palestinians in Gaza. Their cover story is that they only attack ships related to Israel, although that’s more story than fact. Those attacks are a natural result of their anti-Israel stance. The US follows (yes, with some multinational cover, but still the US) with attacks on the Houthi’s military capabilities. That just boots the anti-US stance. Now they hate us even more.
What I’m failing to understand is how any of this really helps the situation. Destroying some of their military equipment will certainly stop (or at least slow) the attacks on shipping for a while. But it does nothing to address the underlying problems.
If these kinds of limited attacks do nothing to address the real problem, why do we keep doing them? Shouldn’t we look for some other response, hopefully one that will make things better for the longer term?
The US inserted themselves into a civil war in which we had no business or strategic reason too.
Perhaps Ronnie realize this what occurred in Vietnam? Alternatives pour substantial number troops into a nation that had no strategic interest or cut and run. He made the correct decision. We likely still would be there losing troops.
You may remember the US inserted itself into another civil war in Somalia.
We attempted to take one of the warlord using Delta force and US Rangers. It turned into a real shyte show. They made a movie about that operation.
“Black Hawk Down”.
Three days later, with Aidid still at large, President Clinton cut his losses and ordered a total U.S. withdrawal. On March 25, 1994, the last U.S. troops left Somalia, leaving 20,000 U.N. troops behind to facilitate “nation-building” in the divided country. The U.N. troops departed in 1995 and political strife and clan-based fighting continued in Somalia into the 21st cent
Another cut and run decision I applaud just I did the current occupant in the Oval Office when he cut and ran from Afghanistan.
Though I certainly oppose his help to the Israelis in the Palestinian genocide operation that is spinning out of control.
The Saudis having been making war upon the Houthis for years with US support.
The Houthis are Shiittes and Saudis are Sunnis which is not the sole reason for the Saudi war but is a significant factor in my opinion. Another reason is that the Houthis overthrew the previous Yemen leader who was aligned with Saudi interests.
Bxxxx said the U.S. would continue the strikes, even though so far they have not stopped the Houthis from continuing to harass commercial and military vessels.
“When you say working, are they stopping the Houthis, no. Are they going to continue, yes,” Bxxxx said in an exchange with reporters before departing the White House for a domestic policy speech in North Carolina.
This attacks likely be as successful as our drone attacks during the war on terror. Creating more people that hate us be not the attacks upon us.
They attacked the WTC because we are in the Middle East. We’re in the Middle East for one reason: Freedom. Freedom of oil to flow* Our economy depends on oil, and a disruption in the flow of oil anywhere causes the price to spike everywhere.
As a fun exercise, in order to blunt Russia’s influence on the oil market, a US president travelled to the Middle East met personally with the Saudi royal family and provided security guarantees in exchange for the promise the Saudis would pump oil. Guess which president it was:
Franklin Roosevelt
*This is an old Rush Limbaugh argument, by the way.
iirc, at least as reported by USian media, the folks in Yemen started firing drones and missiles at Israel. USN ships in the Red Sea started shooting down those Israel-bound weapons. Then the Houthis turned their attention to Red Sea shipping. So the US inserted itself in the Israeli/Muslim conflict.
Oct. 19, 2023
A U.S. Navy warship in the northern Red Sea on Thursday shot down three cruise missiles and several drones launched from Yemen that the Pentagon said might have been headed toward Israel.
“We cannot say for certain what these missiles and drones were targeting, but they were launched from Yemen heading north along the Red Sea, potentially towards targets in Israel,” Brig. Gen. Patrick Ryder, the Pentagon spokesman, told reporters.
People who aren’t allowed a voice have been in effect been disappeared.
Netanyahu has vowed no Palestinian state.
I take him at his word.
Israel has a policy to take Palestinian land on the cheap by expanding settlements into Gaza. This policy violates Palestinian territorial sovereignty. The purpose is the de-Palestinianisation of the Israeli occupied territory.
One can look away and see no evil. But it is there.
Decedents of the 15% of Palestinians that managed to retain ownership of their property.
Veni, vidi, vici.
Israel sought to impede the development of a cohesive national consciousness among the Palestinians by dealing with various minority groups, such as Druze, Circassians, and Bedouin; by hindering the work of the Muslim religious organizations; by arresting and harassing individuals suspected of harbouring nationalist sentiments; and by focusing on education as a means of creating a new Israeli Arab identity.
Name one settlement in Gaza and tell us how many Israelis live there. If Israel has this policy as you asserted, it should be easy to answer. Posting a random old map of Gaza and a link is not an answer. NAME one. Should be easy if such a policy exists (except if you are completely ignorant of the history of Gaza).
Next we should stop using New York harbor. The military power of a few guys from the gulf in dingies needs to come before reality. Let’s lay down our weapons. Rip up the Constitution. Ask England to protect us. Stop getting HDTVs and auto parts from SK.
At least we will be safe with no war.
We would have a war you can not believe in a matter of a decade if we ran scared every time. Mankind sucks. No balance of powers and man only kills.
