They way things are going, I’m more concerned about the ability to produce 7C water for the air con at ambient temperatures over 40C. They say it can do that 7C goal with ambient up to 46C (115F).
I’m a little surprised that nobody mentioned geothermal in connection with heat pumps - much less extremes of temperature than ambient. In Ireland certainly in rural settings, most domestic heat pumps are set up with a geothermal source. Perhaps in cities (like Monaco) this is not an option although, check this out for vertical geothermal https://celsiusenergy.com
I’m a little surprised that nobody mentioned geothermal in connection with heat pumps - much less extremes of temperature than ambient. In Ireland certainly in rural settings, most domestic heat pumps are set up with a geothermal source. Perhaps in cities (like Monaco) this is not an option although, check this out for vertical geothermal https://celsiusenergy.com
I had sticker shock when I priced a ground source heat pump. I suppose it will eventually pay off for most installations, but it can take a long time.
I’m a little surprised that nobody mentioned geothermal in connection with heat pumps - …
Nice approach many places, but (to oversimplify) no ground water here so I didn’t consider it.
Not an easy solution on the side of a rocky mountain.
There is ground water near by, of course…the Med.
Monaco is currently building a seawater heat pump system for municipal heating and cooling, and running a network through the streets.
That works best with deep seabeds near a densely populated shore…check.
For example, using the air con network costs €16.87 per MWh of cooling you use. Plus 20% sales tax.
Tap water is pretty cool even in summer. Has there been any attempt to circulate it inside the house for cooling before running out to faucets and toilets?
Tap water is pretty cool even in summer. Has there been any attempt to circulate it inside the house for cooling before running out to faucets and toilets?
This is, in effect, how the buildings in downtown Toronto are cooled.
They draw cold water from the bottom of the lake for drinking.
But before it goes to the water supply, they use it for chilling.
They are lucky to have a big cold deep freshwater lake right near the population density.
Closed loop geothermal doesn’t need groundwater. Sufficient depth cools the liquid in the closed loops.
Yeah but…rock : )
You’d also have to go pretty deep to get to cool levels depending on the geology.
Picture a very steep south facing rocky slope in a hot climate.
A friend near here has a place around 300m from the sea, elevation about 150m above sea level.
His well went down about 250-300m before he hit water, well below sea level.
But it’s fresh water.
Since they work by moving heat from a hot living room to a kitchen tap, the efficiency is quite astounding during the periods you need both. Expensive, but (a) no gas bills after that, and (b) maybe there won’t be any gas.
That might not be one’s only goal-- much better for virtue signalling : )
Lucky you. Our tapwater is warm enough to take a bath in.
Has something to do with the rocky ground (they had to BLAST a trench deep enough for the sewer, and drinking water pipe cannot go in the same trench as sewer water) – our water line is not quite 12" deep.
And it’s 550 feet from the street to our house, so plenty of time to pick up the summer heat.
OTOH, in winter the tapwater is refreshingly cold.
Of the 40 posts on this thread, only 4 are related to the original post. The original post itself is OT, and subsequent discussions are wayyyyy OT to the original post.
Of the 40 posts on this thread, only 4 are related to the original post. The original post itself is OT, and subsequent discussions are wayyyyy OT to the original post.
Thats the beauty of this board, that it sometimes can be like teatime for old ladies. Just meeting and chatting, communicating, without ideology, without fighting, insulting and posts pulled. Isn’t that great?
Btw: I’ve heard sometimes even financial matters are discussed. So all is good
In 2,500 of the buildings’ 4,000 piles, a construction crew has been drilling holes, filling them with wet concrete, and dropping in the tubing to create “energy piles.”
“This building will operate with carbon-free energy 90% of the time, and we’re hoping through operational improvements we’ll over the years get to the full 100%,” Tahir said.
Nice description of the design thoughts and realization for Google’s new Bay View campus.
Over 1M sq ft & ~0 carbon footprint!
Designing to accommodate the unknown future needs is especially interesting.
Excellent understanding of your micro ground conditions by a hydrogeologist
Approval from your local government (and spouse!) to tear into the yard
Enough land to bury the designed couple
Mild (cold+)enough climate to make it economic
Geothermal as a heat store works well if the ground water flow is minimal. Geothermal as a ‘constant couple’ works well if the ground water flow is high. In between, you end up with a less economic system.
Many, many geothermal systems today have very limited capacity (still enough for a house) and inefficiencies due to low temperature differences between the ground and the application.
When ground conditions allow
+temperate climate north of 40 latitude is generally seen as the best opportunity for loops.
The ideal scenario for geothermal is ground water conditions in the low 40s/high 30s F and a secondary system to plus up the Q (delivered heat) to temperatures acceptable to your chief financial officer. Having said that, many systems get along fine in suboptimal conditions because they are oversized (more expensive) and competing with even more expensive replacement or operating cost equipment.
Of note: the Netherlands is widely seen as the epicenter of geothermal and are accepted as the technology experts in laarger scaale projekts.
The original post itself is OT, and subsequent discussions are wayyyyy OT to the original post.