Did MF successfully kill their own community by eliminating so many boards?
No evidence to support this, but my guess is that TMF doesn’t regard these freemium boards as their “community.” They probably haven’t for a long time.
Before the dotcom bubble burst, TMF used to be more in the “DIY” segment of the market. Sure, they made stock picks and had model portfolios - but mostly for free, and mostly to try to illustrate the financial products they were selling (books on investing, mostly). They were big believers in the wisdom of crowds, and made a few efforts to try to commercialize the large group of people exchanging ideas about investing on their site (first Soapbox, and later CAPS). They actively promoted user-generated content, because having a firehose of new content was key. I believe (though I don’t know) that their media footprint was a bigger part of the company’s revenues back then - the website and ads and old-media presence (like newspaper articles and radio spots) were bigger parts of the business. They made their money offering things for free (or very cheaply) to very large numbers of people…and then “monetizing the eyeballs,” as the kids used to say.
But those days are long gone. My impression is that TMF’s business is almost entirely about selling premium services now - including access to the premium boards on the other side of the paywall. They’re (mostly) not about drawing lots of viewers to a free article (and lively discussion) on the website; they’re about having a smaller of subscribers who pay several hundreds of dollars for access to newsletters and other premium products.
That’s why I think it’s wrong to think about Boardmageddon as a business mistake for TMF. It’s just not. Us folks here on the freemium boards have been largely irrelevant to their business model for a long, long time. Sure, some folks were subscribers to premium services, and there always remained the possibility that some would become subscribers. But TMF stopped being an ad-supported media company, and more a subscriber-supported investment advisor shop, years and years ago. It’s nice that they let us use these boards for as long as they did, but the fact that they’ve kicked (most of) us out will probably have no material impact on the business.
Did MF successfully kill their own community by eliminating so many boards?
They might have saved it. The free boards have been dying for a long time. By eliminating some boards, the have condensed more posters on fewer boards, which means more activity on the remaining boards.
Seems we were discussing that when they announced the board cull. If their revenue source is putting ads in front of eyeballs, and they eliminate where a large portion of where the eyeballs are, seems they would cut their own revenue sharply.
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Who actually reads the ads?
I don’t and I find some to be annoying.
…they’re about having a smaller of subscribers who pay several hundreds of dollars for access to newsletters and other premium products.
In short, they have morphed into just another stock pumping operation, for anyone stupid enough to pay for their hype? That is sort of implicit in the garbage I see on my MSN news feed daily “Motley Fool makes rare “all in” buy call”.
In short, they have morphed into just another stock pumping operation, for anyone stupid enough to pay for their hype? That is sort of implicit in the garbage I see on my MSN news feed daily “Motley Fool makes rare “all in” buy call”.
My Mom always taught me to not complain about the quality of the food when getting a free lunch.
In short, they have morphed into just another stock pumping operation, for anyone stupid enough to pay for their hype? That is sort of implicit in the garbage I see on my MSN news feed daily “Motley Fool makes rare “all in” buy call”.
Sort of - but you can hardly blame them. There’s no business case for what they used to be, not any more.
Original Fool grew to minor prominence at a time when you had: i) huge numbers of people who were newly attracted to stock investing (and thus in the market for DIY stock advice); and ii) the internet was still largely website-based and financially ran on ads delivered on those websites.
All that’s gone now. The dotcom bust culled the target market of DIY stock investors. Content distribution moved from the web to apps. Advertising dollars moved to GOOG and FB. Etc. I don’t know much about the business of media, but even I can see that there’s little chance that having an audience of people who like to read articles on websites - or who like to communicate through long-form text on message boards - is going to be too valuable an asset for a business, because that’s not how content is distributed or ads are sole these days. Banners on blogs have moved to subscriptions and Substack.
“My Mom always taught me to not complain about the quality of the food when getting a free lunch.”
exactly. I’m pretty sure I’m much better off in financial life because of TMF. Had zero
exposure to finance/investing while growing up, although was exposed to the concept of saving,
and hard work as a young adult. TMF definitely got me interested in having a retirement goal, and
made it clear that it could be done, with hard work and saving being the key components.
TMF did use to make statements about “the wise” ( I think that’s how they referred to the
Wall St types ), and the hidden ways that “the wise” can take a bite out of you. And then TMF
became “the wise”. But that’s ok, I’m glad I’m not having my feet held to the fire for statements
I made when I was young. TMF is a business, they’ve evolved, and I still think TMF is offering
a good product. And I have honestly not missed the political posts. They were interesting, but
offered little in the way of actionable information. I disliked 1 side, and they disliked me,
and nobody’s opinion got changed, as far as I can tell.
Did MF successfully kill their own community by eliminating so many boards?
That, and Saul’s recommending a toxic level of concentration in a handful of meme stocks ultimately bankrupting many followers of the Saul board. Of course his penchant for censorship didn’t help.
TMF did use to make statements about “the wise” ( I think that’s how they referred to the Wall St types ), and the hidden ways that “the wise” can take a bite out of you. And then TMF became “the wise”.
Indeed. I was thinking, this afternoon, how the Fool has become “the wise” (yes, that was the term) that they used to ridicule. You put it nicely. I would say, the Fool became “the wise” because that is the way to get the most money out of people.
Thanks for the link to your excellent post over on Saul’s Board, with large scale long term solid investment psychology advice.
I’d shift from crashing aviation metaphors to “If you can’t take the heat then get out of the kitchen!” I’ve left quite a few kitchens that were fine for some and too hot for me, and found others where I love cooking, and that highly individual quest to find the right kitchen is the crux to successful investing. Saul’s Board and your style of options leveraged investing is waaaaay to hot for me.
I am having a happy time! right now in my kitchen.
I’d shift from crashing aviation metaphors to “If you can’t take the heat then get out of the kitchen!”
Harry Truman?
Talking about kitchens. Since my dad had hotels and restaurants, when we went on longer races I used to bring along a lot stuff. But you have to spiff it up a bit to serve it. So I started cooking. As time went by I got more adventurous. Image ceviche made with just caught grouper. I got a bit of a reputation and people would ask me to cook up something. My excuse? “I only know how to cook in galleys that sway with the waves.”
There is no one investing style for all but there is one fundamental requirement. Years ago I read a piece that discussed efficient vs. sturdy portfolios. Leverage makes portfolios efficient but flimsy. Sufficient cash reserves make portfolios sturdy enough to weather the inevitable bear markets. You have to find the right balance between greed and fear, between efficiency and sturdiness to build your ideal portfolio.
As an example, I hear people trying to squeeze an extra half percent interest out of their cash reserves. Bad idea. Find the safest place for your cash, it’s your insurance policy. You don’t want to buy insurance from a company about to go bankrupt!
On the other side, don’t buy investment so safe that they produce zilch! Understand why Modern Portfolio Theory (MPT) is so popular, the lower volatility of uncorrelated assets keeps your customers from bolting! It’s great for fund managers but not great for fund investors.
Maybe most important of all, don’t aim to beat indexes. Three out of four investors will underperform the index thanks to the Pareto Distribution through no fault of their own. Concentrate on making your port cover your needs! Some of us need growth, some need income, some need capital preservation. The most expensive mistake I ever was trying to double my port just one more time. Now I concentrate on covering my expenses and surviving bear markets which led me to split my port in two, one part to cover expenses and the other LTBH. That was a big improvement!
{See how much easier your post is to read if you PROOF READ it before posting?}
“My Mom always taught me to not complain about the quality of the food when getting a free lunch.”
exactly. I’m pretty sure I’m much better off in financial life because of TMF.
Had zero exposure to finance/investing while growing up, although was exposed to the concept of saving, and hard work as a young adult.
TMF definitely got me interested in having a retirement goal, and
made it clear that it could be done, with hard work and saving being the key components.
TMF did use to make statements about “the wise” ( I think that’s how they referred to the Wall St types ), and the hidden ways that “the wise” can take a bite out of you.
And then TMF became “the wise”. But that’s ok, I’m glad I’m not having my feet held to the fire for statements I made when I was young.
TMF is a business, they’ve evolved, and I still think TMF is offering
a good product.
And I have honestly not missed the political posts.
They were interesting, but offered little in the way of actionable information.
I disliked 1 side, and they disliked me, and nobody’s opinion got changed, as far as I can tell.
Thank you for recommending this post to our Best of feature.
Three out of four investors will underperform the index thanks to the Pareto Distribution through no fault of their own.
Pareto Distribution
The Pareto distribution, named after the Italian civil engineer, economist, and sociologist Vilfredo Pareto, is a power-law probability distribution that is used in description of social, quality control, scientific, geophysical, actuarial, and many other types of observable phenomena. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_distribution