OT - U.S. voices concern as Gaza hospitals hit, reported overall Palestinian death toll tops 11,000

Geneva – As the war on the Gaza Strip enters its seventh week, Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor said today that the death toll from Israel’s genocide campaign has likely risen to 20,000 dead Palestinians, including those missing under the rubble with little hope of survival.

Euro-Med Monitor estimated that at least 15,271 Palestinians in Gaza have been killed, including 3,561 women and 6,403 children. Over 32,310 additional people have been injured by the Israeli attacks, many of whom are in critical condition and unable to receive even the bare minimum of medical attention due to the Gazan health system’s collapse.

There are reportedly 4,1500 people missing beneath the debris of buildings hit by Israeli air and artillery strikes, with little chance of their survival. Hundreds of bodies that cannot be recovered remain on the roads, according to Euro-Med Monitor, particularly in areas where the Israeli army has conducted ground incursions.

Friday 17 November: Twenty thousand Palestinians believed to be killed in Israel’s genocide of Gaza - occupied Palestinian territory | ReliefWeb.

more bs. I never said the women and children were Hamas “terrorists”. That is how the Palestinians argue. Making up stuff and then pretending lies are righteous. Denying they are Syrians. LOL

I have repeatedly said the Hamas militants had their families around them when the air raids happened.

Were you wrong in how you quoted me? Or is this one more of your goof-ups that you can not face?

You and I have no numbers on Hamas dead. I said that clearly. You have it wrong what I am saying. Can you admit you have it wrong? Or are you not up to the job of making mistakes and admitting you are wrong?

I will say Hamas likes to sit down with women and children even though it is a warzone against the militants. Nothing like risking your entire family in a war you started. Oh, and you have said several times you will do it over and over again.

Before you blame the Israelis which is what Hamas is doing think about this. How can Hamas have a country if it kills people and blames others? Murders can not have countries to run. There are a lot of innocent Palestinians(Syrian Tribesmen) that should not have Hamas as leadership.

Beyond that Israel is killing the militants. Israel owns it. Why is Israel killing the militants? Because this is a war. That is what happens in a war. This entire massive action (well it falls far short of Russian actions in Ukraine but whatever) has been brewing since 2007 when Hamas declared there will never be any peace. Israel has been patiently waiting to work with the innocent vast majority of Gazans. But pushed enough democratic republics are ruthless. 2007 to 2023 We will own ruthless. Hamas really needs to own stupid. Like any other authoritarian rule. Stupid. Hamas also needs to own wasted time. More stupid.

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Israeli IDF in Gaza is doing the same genocide/ethnic cleansing that Russian military is doing in Ukraine.

  • Russians & Israelis bomb civilians on purpose
  • Russians & Israelis destroy civilian infrastructure (water/electricity/communications) on purpose
  • Russians & Israelis destroy hospitals, schools, churches, bakeries and other stores on purpose
  • Russians call Ukrainians terrorists
  • Israelis call Palestinians terrorists (The settlers, IDF, and Likud party)

You have a lot of it very wrong.

You are a zealot. You have to believe. You are blind.

This is a ruthless war. The comparisons in terms of death do matter. The comparisons in terms of Israel to Russia show you are disturbed. Zealots need their cause to explain their own disturbance.

We do not know how many Hamas militants have been killed. That is the key statistic to understanding the reported numbers. Their families were surrounding them. That also is an unknow set of stats but quite obvious. These numbers have been taken away from the public. I could speculate on why but will not.


Let us know the date(s) Ukraine invaded Russia and killed 20+k Russians
within the past 20 yrs.

Your statement is a blatantly false equivalency.


Russians claim that Ukrainians have been killing Russian civilians in Donbas since 2014.

Russians claim that Ukrainians are NATSI terrorists.

Puty-Pute proved he is a Natsi terrorist.


Hamas has been launching rockets since 2007 instead of getting into talks.

I agree Netanyahu has also been wasting time quite purposely. Hamas has been an endless excuse to not sit down at all.

Netanyahu is right. Either there is a democratic republic on the other side of the table or zero deal. Zero deal. Grow up politically or get wasted.

The dye is cast unless both Hamas and Netanyahu go.


More than Netanyahu has to go. Te whole Likud party and the settlers in West Bank have to go.

The PLO has self-rule on 20% of the West Bank. I’d like to see that increased by the other mixed governance from 20% to 40%.

Israel has to come first. The reason is we have stability in Israel. We have stability in Jordan. But we do not have stability in Syria or Lebanon. We do not have stability with peace in Gaza. Both the Palestinians and Israelis need to work together in stability in peace.

There are forces among the Palestinians that will work against stability for any of them. That can not be ignored.

The all-or-nothing exists just like it did for the Christian Lebanese. If that is all that is to be achieved there is no deal. Don’t kid yourself that you are righteous enough for a crazy deal to happen. Hamas is not really righteous. None on any side are.

It is democratic republics or the highway. No one is righteous so at least powersharing gives human beings a chance.

There are plenty of innocent Israelis who have only known Israel. It is not like they are not from the land. You ask what right is it? It is not a one-way claim.


Why only 40%?
For a two state solution PLO should govern 100% of the West Bank.

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We have conservatives in Likud party and the IDF that will work against stability for any of them. That can not be ignored.

Israel already governs the rest of it, 60% filled with settlements.

You keep coming back to things that are not real. Making claims just because. The borders are not fixed like in Europe.

True. I’d be happy to see them gone from power entirely or at least not the majority. The Israeli public now agrees. The end game they wanted is coming off the table.

Illegal settlements which should be confiscated from the criminal settlers. Israel does not wanted to give up anything for peace. So they get violence because the system is rigged by the Israelis.

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Netanyahu is wrong. There is no democratic republic on the Hamas side of the table because the Likud party has made that impossible. Israel can not just bottle up all the Palestinians in an open air prison and just walk away. That is like asking the prisoners in San Quinten to develop a democracy with no resources to govern themselves.


Is that an accurate description of the political process of the withdrawal? Israel removed all of the Israeli settlements from Gaza, over the sometimes violent objections of the settlers (a preview of what pulling settlements out of the West Bank would entail). They ceased their military operations within Gaza and were entirely out by late 2005.

In 2006, there were parliamentary elections held throughout the Palestinian territories - including within Gaza. Those elections were successfully held. But Hamas won those elections, leading to international sanctions (not just by Israel). It also led to the violent clashes between Hamas and Fatah, where Hamas basically rejected the unity government they had formed with Fatah and seized control of the government organs of Gaza in 2007 and never held another election. After Hamas seized power by force, Israel tightened the sanctions and blockade to seal them in.

Those conditions make it impossible for Fatah to re-establish control over Gaza, but that’s not the reason why there isn’t a democratic republic there. The reason is that Hamas staged a violent seizure of the government and drove out all of their political enemies. The people of Gaza are suffering immensely, but Hamas is the author of that particular set of depredations.


Likud wins elections. Hamas does not.

What is your definition of winning elections? I think you are making up nonsense.

What you say about the Israeli withdrawal is mostly correct. But Israelis blockaded Gaza. How did the Israelis think the Gaza would survive? Israelis did not let Gaza flourish because they were locked up in a open air prison. The Israelis violated international laws by blockading Gaza. It was terrible for the Gaza civilians to live under those conditions. Israelis would not like to live under the same conditions in Israel.

Of course it’s terrible for Gazan civilians to live in those conditions, but the author of those conditions isn’t just Israel. Hamas violently seized power and killed (or drove out) all their political enemies, destroying all the democratic institutions in Gaza so they could have control. Ascribing that to Israel, rather than Hamas, is inaccurate.

Second, Gaza doesn’t just border Israel. It also borders Egypt - which has also sealed them off. Why? Because Egypt shares Israel’s assessment that a territory run by Hamas as the de facto government is so intolerable a security threat that ordinary commercial relations can’t happen. That sealing the border is a rational and appropriate response to that security threat.

Third, Gaza is able to survive because it gets enormous amounts of international aid - but part of the reason it is unable to thrive is because Hamas diverts enormous amounts of resources from the welfare of the civilians into prosecuting its violence against Israel. Tunnels and rockets instead of basic infrastructure - and a continuous level of violence to ensure that neither Egypt nor Israel relaxes the blockade. Enough to keep both countries from opening either border. Which is a good strategy from their perspective; the more horrendous things are for the people of Gaza, the more likely they are to support their program of violence against the Jews.

Hamas is also a primary author of the Gazan people’s misery. The are the government of Gaza. By choosing unremitting violence, they ensure that Gaza can’t have a “normal” border with either Israel or Egypt.