Once I get started down a rabbit hole there’s no stopping me. Following up on the references on the Wikipedia articles on these preprint non publications, I got to thinking about the impact on the Scientific Method of what’s basically an information dissemination free-for-all. I found out that it wasn’t my imagination that a heck of a lot that drifts my way on Covid (especially in the context of Covid/vaccine “skepticism”) has a much greater proportion of studies that are pre prints.
Tooling around on Google again I found that there’s a fair bit of discussion about the phenom. Here’s a couple of differently nuanced takes within the scientific community. Whilst neither is necessarily right or wrong, it’s easy to see how this archive might well become another good idea with unintended consequences…whereby young researchers (with a resume to pad quickly) start to view a non-peer reviewed pre print and subsequent press release/discussion on websites as an end result of research rather than the gold standard of having your work reliable reproduced by independent researchers.
There’s a reason for that … it’s the virus, not the vaccine.
Unfortunately this is not true. The studies that were done showed that after about 5-6 months individuals who had gotten both vaccines had the same immunity as the unvaccinated population. Anyways, the severity of this bug is so low that I can’t understand why it still dominates the news. The long term data is showing that it has a mortality rate in the less than .1% range for the elderly and extremely low mortality rate for young people ie 99.99% of young people survive. My whole family (17 people ) had covid back in the summer of 2020, none have taken any vax and none have had a second infection from it. The worst symptom I had was the anosomia (loss of smell) for 2 months. With these sudden deaths my kids are saying they are very hesitant to consider the boosters. My in laws (80’s) got the vax and both contracted covid at 5 1/2 months post vaccination. They got the intravenous antibody within two days and recovered within 36 hours! I counseled them to get the vax because of their age. We have a family friend with severe lung disease who gets pneumonia multiple times every year. I advised him to get the vax, line up a source for the antibody, see if his PCP would prescribe him Ivermectin or hydroxychloroquin and take zinc ( based on the scientific information that was available in late 2020). I’m not antivax but I am against vaccinating low risk individuals like kids, athletes, healthy adults with no risk factors.IMHO…doc
But the main issue is not “in the distant future” (i.e. 6 months later). People want reasonable protection “RIGHT NOW”. Vaccines give the general public a better near-term response to the current bug going around. In six months, there will be a “new and improved” version of the virus–which MAY require a different vaccine (or not–depending how the newest variant differs from the six-month-old virus).
Who is “people”? You? Your family? Your 80 years old friends?
I know a lot of people of all ages who got the first two or three vaccines and many of them got the sicknes too in the last 12 months.
But I do not know ANYBODY who wants to get a new booster.
NOBODY.
Interesting. I am scheduled for sinus surgery (MIST) in 2 weeks. I got a call from the doctor’s office for a pre-surgery check-in yesterday. I must show them proof of vaccinations that include the latest booster by sending them an email with a picture of my vax card tomorrow.
If I don’t - no sinus surgery for me.
Are other folks finding the same requirements for elective surgery?
'38Packard
→ boosted - so on with my MIST in 2 weeks!
The fact that you have to show the proof of vaccination before surgery, doesn´t change the fact that I don´t know anybody who wants to get the last booster. My cousin, who got his third vaccin in December 2021 had surgery today and didn´t have to show anything at the hospital.
I had surgery in October (and spent 2 nights in the hospital) and although I was asked if I was vaccinated, I didn´t have to prove it.
That’s kind of insane. What state is it? Here in Florida, there’s an online system called “Florida Shots” where docs/hospitals can pull up a verified list of all your vaccinations, and not rely on some random photo of a card that could be real or could be fake.
The high and mighty Commonwealth of Massachusetts.
We have one too. I sent them a screen print of that system instead of the vax card, because my vax card is not up to date. It does not show my booster. The place where I got my booster said that they would report it to the State and I could see it on my Vax Record held with the Dept of Health. I have NO idea why the hospital would not look there first. Maybe a HIPPA thing?
This is a common problem in discussions on many topics. Individuals think their experiences are universal. Your sample of a few people - anyone you know - doesn’t mean your sample of people is representative of all people.
A contrasting - and equally useless for statistical purposes - observation is that almost everyone I know has gotten the most recent booster.
Our individual observations of the world around us are not always terribly good at informing us about what is actually going on in the world. We need to seek out additional information about things happening outside of our individual little slices of the world. That makes this additional information available to us for forming a more fully rounded view of the world.
Of course you are right most people are not getting that booster.
Just me my lonesome. I was happy to get that last booster. I have 84/83 dad/mom who do not need me causing havoc if I can help it. Guess who else besides moms and dads gets the havoc? I see myself raising my hand…
There is nothing wrong not going with the sheep on autopilot to be for getting that vaccine. The sheep have all convinced themselves to be cool not getting a booster. My impressive.
I am never one to allow peer pressure to make dumb decisions for me. There are still long covid cases occurring.
It is indeed a common problem. In this case, however, there is ample evidence that many fewer people are choosing (for assorted reasons) to get the bivalent booster shot.
Excerpts - …
Across the United States, where about 94 percent of people 65 and older had their initial Covid vaccines, only 36 percent have received the updated shot, known as the bivalent booster, according to data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. … Yet even at this facility, where 100 percent of participants received their initial vaccines, only 40 percent have gotten the bivalent booster.
Generally, people who are (or think they are) at greater risk for a major medical expense if they get sick (from whatever it is going around this time). This tends to eliminate most younger people.
Younger people tend to believe they are immune (or will easily handle whatever they get) until they get sick and need significant medical care. Look at the situation that developed with Hamlin (NFL) when he had heart failure during the game–and watched by millions of people.
We all were invincible when younger, or were oblivious to the world situation… Surviving this years hopefully leads to more common sense, better care, better education and learning to tune out the fear mongers that haunt us via the various social media…
Here, it’s the Ignore or Mute selections, sadly it still leaves the ‘hidden reply’ but at least they’re in the P-Box of old… Rantings and ravings will always be with us, no longer snake oil sales, more likely the Birchers of old, deservedly very lonely folks…
I think this is an interesting question. I can think of three concerns. First, the study start date is Sep 12, 2022, a good two years into the pandemic, and the participants were employees of an urban health center, an occupation I would consider at high risk for covid exposure. It wouldn’t surprise me if the majority of the subjects in this study had previously been infected with asymptomatic Covid and so have varying levels of resistance that is in addition to that acquired by vaccinations. The authors do discuss this possibility, but I think it is a bigger issue than they make it out to be and it makes the comparisons they want to make problematic.
Second is the possibility of a type of selection bias. Think about the no vaccination group that showed the lowest risk of Covid infection. If someone unvaccinated has not been infected two years into the pandemic while working in a health clinic, there is a good chance that person has a higher than normal resistance to Covid.
Third, I would like to see the demographic profiles of the unvaccinated and vaccinated groups, particularly with respect to covid risk factors like age. It wouldn’t surprise me if there is a positive correlation between risk factors and the number of vaccinations. In other words, a higher proportion of the folks with multiple vaccinations will have higher than average susceptibility to covid due to preexisting conditions than the unvaccinated cohort.
