Reportedly, Bart Giamatti the commissioner who banned Rose, offered him the same deal. Rose was a big star and MLB undoubtedly wanted him back. But he had to cop to it.
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Great story! Iād be far more interested in going to a baseball history museum that showcased the entire messy history of the sport rather than going to the Hall of Fame.
Most career Hits (4,256) ever
17x All-Star
7x MLB Hits leader
2x MLB Batting Champ
The above should get him in.
He wasnāt the most athletically gifted player, but nobody worked any harder than Rose. That hustle enabled him to get where he had to be to become one of the best to ever play the game.
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That is why they are lifting the ban ā also for the āBlack Soxā, IIRC. The ban was a lifetime one, and they decided the ban should end when their life did.
DB2
Itās probably worth noting that gambling gets the death penalty because it undermines the very integrity of the game. If there is doubt that each team is trying their best to win, all youāve got is WWE Wrestling, which is the worst thing that can happen to a competitive sports league.
Drug abuse, criminal behavior, etc., while egregious, donāt undermine the integrity of the entire sport in the same way.
FWIW, Iām ok the ban(s) being lifted, but understand why they were applied.
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This makes perfect sense. The argument was that by honoring them (HOF, ot anything pro baseball related), they could do damage to the game (overall, to the ācultureā part of the game), but now that they are dead, they canāt do anything anymore, only live people can still do things.
Performance enhancing drugs also undermines the integrity of the game. Imagine if there is a drug that can be taken before a game that makes your hitting much stronger, and you suddenly started hitting 20-30% more balls out of the park? (This is what literally happened in some cases)
Not only that, but PEDs directly and always undermines the integrity of the game. Gambling doesnāt always do so. If you gamble on unrelated teams, then you have no external incentive to either play worse (or otherwise affect the game outcome) or play better, because what you do has no effect on the outcome of the unrelated games you gambled on. This obviously isnāt strictly true, because you might have an incentive to purposely injure an opposing teamās player in order to affect future games of that team that you may want to bet against. But it could still be argued that gambling on unrelated teams is less of an assault on the integrity of the game than PEDs are. Of course, both should be forbidden! Itās just that perhaps the punishment should vary somewhat.
What about Shoeless Joe Jackson. He co-operated with gamblers to lose a world series. Can that be forgiven.
By gambling on games Rose had the same opportunity.
Games should be fair. Players can work with gamblers if they choose but then they canāt play. How can you make exceptions. Maybe after they are deceased.
It is logical because the offenses arenāt the same. Gambling on baseball- even the appearance of gambling on baseball- undermines the integrity of the entire game. Moreover, MLB and all of its players have been aware of this for decades and the message has been clear for a very long time. There are signs reminding every player in every minor and major league clubhouse that they cannot gamble on baseball. Rose broke it and got banned.
I deplore the use of performance enhancing drugs, but as noted elsewhere, it was widespread across the game in the 1990s. I agree that it has damaged the game. And others have pointed out, players have been finding ways to enhance performance with drugs for years. However, this is a bit misplaced because while MLB has declined to ban these players, thereās been enough Hall of Fame voters who refuse to vote for the best of the steroid players that those players have been unable to gain access. No Bonds, no McGwire, no Clemens.
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I donāt have a strong conviction either way. Whether they ban them forever or let them in I really donāt care. Itās just my opinion that a lifetime ban is just that and now they are dead. But if you would like to ban them forever that is fine.
I agree completely with this. I am also against the performance enhancing drugs because it gives an unfair advantage to those using them. But (in theory) the users are still trying to perform their best in every game unlike with gamblers of any type.
My Pete Rose story.
(I greatly admired him as a player and was saddened by his gambling)
About 15 years ago I was in Las Vegas and got discounted dinner & show tickets. We had to go to a specific restaurant for the dinner in a mall next to Caesars. After dinner we were walking down the mall and I saw a guy sitting alone at a table outside a sports memorabilia shop.
It was Pete Rose. Part of me wanted to go talk to him since he looked so sad and lonelyā¦but I wasnāt going to buy anything so I passed. And then I thought, WTH, Pete, you were caught gambling so you came to Vegas to sign stuff? Maybe he thought the Vegas crowd would give him a pass on gambling addiction.
Mike
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No I donāt think that should be forgiven. It changes the history, the record books, the stats, everything that makes baseball baseball. I think in general the punishment should fit the crime.
Talking about the integrity of baseball, I still havenāt decided what the punishment should be for changing the rules that the last runner begins at second base in extra innings.
Simple rules for living:
If you gamble on any game you participate in, and we catch you, you are banned from the game.
If you use performance enhancing drugs, and we catch you, you are banned from the game.
āBanned from the gameā necessarily means the other accoutrements of the game, such as the (official) Hall Of Fame.
Forever. Yeah, I said it. I donāt think Bin Laden should be forgiven just because heās dead and canāt hurt anyone anymore. Different scale, I acknowledge.
{Best comment seen elsewhere: Big day yesterday for Pete Rose and the Menendez Brothers.]
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I was asked something in work by a younger German immigrant a few weeks ago. He had a hard time framing the question but I responded and he was relieved. My response, āNo German born after the war is guilty of anythingā.
There is a time and place for guilt. Other wise we can not live in a society that only harps on guilt.
Maybe it is fitting that Rose has passed first. This was not supposed to be his reward. His ability as a player should be recognized.
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And his ability has and is recognized. He is the leader in hits for MLB and has 3 World Series rings (or at least he did before he hocked them for cash). No one has taken those away from him. This is about another recognition- allowing him to be enshrined (as well as Shoeless Joe Jackson and several others) in the Hall of Fame. His actions have, in my opinion, permanently disqualified him for that honor.
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Baseballās surrender on Pete Rose is a disgrace to the gameBanning someone from baseballās Hall of Fame is not a sentence to the electric chair, much as the worshipers of the emerald chessboard like to frame it so. Itās not a guillotine. Itās not denial of a second chance in life. Itās just a simple statement that says, āWe will not enshrine you.ā We will not exalt and consecrate you, we will not immortalize you, we will not memorialize and reverence you under glass. ā¦
Of course, the dead men required the aid of a weak living commissioner, Manfred, who ā shortly after [a conversation with Roseās pal President Donald Trump] ā suddenly reversed himself on all he had previously written and believed. In his ruling declaring formerly banned individuals posthumously eligible, he ludicrously (un)reasoned, āA person no longer with us cannot represent a threat to the integrity of the game.ā
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2025/05/14/pete-rose-hall-of-fame/
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