I’ve not been following the electric cars saga as i think that they are the new Betamax. I thought that they were supposed to be cheap to run:
Or is just newspaper talk - I don’t know much about Businessinsider
5 Likes
I believe that has to do with charging on the road v in your own garage.
I could be wrong.
If you live somewhere sunny and have solar it must cheap.
The website for the data of the study is rather thin on methodology. I would not trust any study on this topic without first knowing things like how they calculate the cost per mile and/or the cost per Kwh.
For example, why does the “Fueling cost per 100 purposeful miles” vary so widely for EVs?
I don’t own an EV but I can’t imagine it cost $12+ to fuel up at home for “100 purposeful miles” based on the typical Kwh cost for home electricity. That would mean that it would cost you nearly $40 or each time you fully charge a vehicle with a 300 mile range.
For those with an EV, does that mirror your experience?
1 Like
Something is missing. A Ford Mach-E gets an estimated 33kWh/100 miles. If we assume residential electricity rates are $0.30/kWh (higher than almost everywhere, I pay between $0.11 and $0.13) then it would cost $9.90 per 100 miles, compared with the article’s claim of $12.62 per 100 miles.
The US average is about $0.15/kWh or about $5 per 100 miles.
3 Likes
I switched from a 4-door ICE sedan to a comparable 4-door EV sedan (both almost exactly the same price). The ICE sedan would get me about 50 miles from $10 of gasoline. The EV sedan gets me about 245 miles from $10 of electricity (home charging). On the rare occasions (long trips) that I charge at a supercharger, I get about 105 miles from $10 of electricity. When I charge at the supermarket, at the movie theater, at a hotel, I get a bunch of my miles from $0 of electricity. Do any hotels or retail establishments give free gasoline nowadays?
We also have a second EV that is used solely for commuting. And the office building has a bunch of free chargers under a large solar array in the parking lot. That car, over the last 2 years, has only paid for charging twice. Do any office buildings provide free gasoline nowadays? Maybe if you work for Exxon or Shell or BP? I know FP&L has free chargers all over the place, and at many of their facilities.
6 Likes
You do understand this is not ‘free’ charging, right? Someone is paying for the electricity and adding it to the charges you pay at the hotel or theater or market.
JimA
1 Like
I get about 210 wh/m in my Tesla Model 3, but on faster/longer trips w/ AC it is more like 250wh/m (which is 4 miles per kwh). Electricity prices vary widely, so here is a table
cents/kwh $ per 100 miles
---------------------------
10 | $2.50 (my approx home cost due to solar*)
15 | $3.75 (typical residential cost)
20 | $5.00 (my home cost if I had no solar)
25 | $6.25
30 | $7.50 (typical low Supercharger cost)
35 | $8.75 (most Superchargers less than this, I think)
50 | $12.50 (ripoff price or high demand price)
- my solar has paid for itself in 8 years. Now it is basically free but I computed a 20 year lifetime cost/kwh. Expected life and warranty is for 25/30 years.
Mike
5 Likes
Maybe, but probably not. A few hours of charging costs a couple of bucks. If free charging is what induces you to see Oppenheimer at AMC instead of Regal, then AMC made out like a bandit. The incremental cost of showing the movie to one more person is zero, so selling one extra ticket even at a slight discount is pure profit. Even better if you bring the family and hit the snack bar.
Same thing with movie theaters providing air conditioning. Sure, it is an expense, but it is way more cost effective than not having air condition.
5 Likes
You mean the air conditioning isn’t free??? 
1 Like
What do you mean “maybe, but probably not”? Do you think the power company is giving the provider “free” electricity. And I thought we were talking about the people charging their cars and not whether it makes sense for the business to offer free charging. As an example, in the past 16 years of tournament golf I have received some 200+ free shirts and probably 100+ free hats. Wow, did I make out like a bandit! However, I paid entry fees for the privilege. I don’t consider the stuff as free stuff.
JimA
I have a PHEV. The last time I did the math, my rough calculations were that if I can charge at home, I can make my round trip commute to work (almost exactly 40 miles) for about $1 of electricity. Conveniently, my car gets about 40 MPG on gas, so it would cost roughly $3.50 in fuel for the round trip at recent prices.
That said, the math is based on a home electric cost of about $0.08 per KWH, and a round trip commute that uses about 12.5 KWH of power. The last time I looked, the local chargers that aren’t free ran between $0.35 and $0.55 per KWH. That would put the round trip electric cost around $4.38 to $6.88, which would be more expensive than gas.
Unfortunately, the local chargers that are free tend to be either in poor condition or at places like car dealerships that reserve the spaces for prospects.
My general practice when away from home is that if I can charge for free to me, I’ll do it. If I have to pay, I’ll do some rough math to compare the cost of charging to the cost of gas. Then, even if I’d be willing to pay to charge, it’s often a question of whether the app and chargers are communicating with each other as to whether I am actually charging there.
My experience has strongly confirmed my initial perspective when I decided to buy the PHEV: I’m willing to go all electric when the infrastructure improves a whole bunch or when 500+ miles of EV range becomes available in a price range I can afford and a vehicle type that meets my family’s needs.
At the 500+ mile range, I can better put up with the headaches of winter range reduction, not-so-hot charging infrastructure, and our family’s frequent “long day trip” type excursions to things like soccer tournaments that are 150-200 driving miles away.
Until then, I’m fine with a car that meets most of my daily driving needs on my cheaper at-home electric charging rate and that I can easily take on trips for roughly comparable fuel costs to paying an EV charging network.
Regards,
-Chuck
Home Fool
9 Likes
I don’t know about all hotels, but the last one, a Hampton Inn, the room charge was the same whether I drove up in my EV or in my ICE vehicle. And the local theater charges me the same if I park my EV there or if I park my ICE there. Sometimes the EV chargers are all in use, so I don’t charge those times, but when they are available, it’s a perfect time to charge for 2-3 hours.
More accurately, there’s no “incremental fee” for me to charge, so nothing accrues to my fueling costs in those instances. Obviously someone is paying for the electricity. But FP&L has a lot of those solar ones here, so maybe there is no fee for the electricity? I assume it’s mostly a PR thing for them?
The point is, that if you are comparing fueling costs for EV versus ICE, you also have to account for these examples.
2 Likes
Careful where you park them:
Hyundai Motor and Kia said on Thursday they are recalling more than 113,000 newer vehicles in North America because of fire risks and urged owners to park outside and away from structures pending repairs.
I’ll stick with a petrol car as long as I’m able to.
That’s been my analysis. If I had a 40 mile all-electric range in a PHEV, that would cover 98% of my driving. Then I’d use the gasoline engine on longer trips when the odds are an electric charge on the road would cost as much per mile as the gasoline, or even more.
intercst
2 Likes
Of course not. You claimed the cost of charging is being added to the charges at the theater, supermarket, etc.
The P&L statements of all retail business include a line item called “cost of sales.” In my example, providing charging lowers the cost of sales. So why does the theater need to increase prices when its costs go down?
??? I am confused. The recall IS for petrol cars. This recall should illustrate a reason not to have petrol…
6 Likes
That’s not how it works. The exhibition house only gets a slice of the ticket sale, on a film in the first couple weeks they typically get only 25% to 40% of the ticket sale, so on a $15 ticket they might only get $3-$5. As films last in theaters the split changes in favor of the house, but anyone who has looked at grosses knows the big money comes in during the first couple weeks and it’s a steep slope down after that. (The houses make their margin on popcorn & soda.)
But that’s nitpicking, because even though that price doesn’t show up in your individual ticket, it’s still a cost which has to be amortized across their entire balance sheet. It’s a cost, just not a visible one to you. It’s like taking credit cards - they take a 2%-4% hit by accepting them, but you don’t see a difference with someone who pays cash. It’s the cash payer subsidizing the credit card holder (and payment company), and in this case it’s the “full price” ticket holder subsidizing the “free” EV chargers out in the parking lot.
Yes, I understand your argument that if doing so produces an incremental dollar then maybe it’s worth it - which mirrors Visa’s argument that “people spend more when they have a credit card” and it may even be true. That still doesn’t make it “free”. It’s still a cost to be paid, the fact that it might (or might not) generate revenue is a different thing. Advertising generates revenue, but we don’t think of it as “free”, and “air conditioning” used to generate revenue, but it still had to be paid for. I suspect it no longer does (big in the 1930’s when nobody had home A/C) and it’s a cost. Not free.
1 Like
Finally, someone who understands the point I was making. Thanks Goofy; may I call you Goof?
JimA
1 Like
Actually, the models affected are ICE models. The controller that is starting the fire is for an electric oil pump for the transmission, to improve responsiveness in conjunction with the automatic stop/start system that ICE cars have now.
Steve
3 Likes