because much of that debt was unlikely to ever be repaid. More than eight million people — one in five borrowers with a payment due — had defaulted on their loans before the coronavirus pandemics
Note the banks make out in this arrangement. While it is marginal it is a good deal for them.
I will say it again, the grads become better consumers and savers if they have less in debt. That is a big deal if you are running a mom and pop plumbing business. You need paying customers.
The results are striking—43 percent of companies in the 2017 Fortune 500 were founded or co-founded by an immigrant or the child of an immigrant, and among the Top 35, that share is 57 percent.
Sounds like great economic logic to me.
AW
+++++++++++
Of course they are from the same subset of immigrants, right? I mean otherwise, your comment would be dishonest.
In my business I have encountered any number of second generation US citizens who through parent driven initiative, drive and ambition have excelled in college and have taken good professional careers. All this while the parents work 2 or more jobs to get their kids what they themselves never had. I am sorry to say, that is severely lacking among many (too many) American citizens whose parents were born here. When kids are pushed to excel by a parental unit, they have a far better chance of doing just that, than waiting for the next pandering promise of a free-be.
That is a whole other story line.
YR
The results are striking—43 percent of companies in the 2017 Fortune 500 were founded or co-founded by an immigrant or the child of an immigrant, and among the Top 35, that share is 57 percent.
Sounds like great economic logic to me.
AW
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2017/12/04/almost-…
Thank you for the link
Isn’t immigration the foundation of the US economic model since inception? Melting pot nation of immigrants and their descendants making a diversified portfolio of human capital innovating to this day. Built and building so many great companies - we all agree on this, no? (darn JC’s notwithstanding)
And yet - there is no attempt to change our educational system in a way that reduces costs and rewards those who take degrees which benefit society.
The School Administrators need the money desperately!
The Captain
burrocratic bloat
Perhaps a being a little more specific would be more honest. “Just who are those folks in the civilized nation who are pegged to cough up the dollars?”
How many Fools remember that student loans could not be discharged via bankruptcy?
Is loan forgiveness another move to help Wall Street Banks, the private cartel that owns the Fed?
The Captain
“The results are striking—43 percent of companies in the 2017 Fortune 500 were founded or co-founded by an immigrant or the child of an immigrant, and among the Top 35, that share is 57 percent.”
And likely, that is a VERY SMALL percentage of ‘immigrants’ and most likely they came here legally to study at college, or already had a college education - and rose through academia to PhD or DSC level, then founded their companies.
Now, how many illegal immigrants actually did that?
YR:"Of course they are from the same subset of immigrants, right? I mean otherwise, your comment would be dishonest.
In my business I have encountered any number of second generation US citizens who through parent driven initiative, drive and ambition have excelled in college and have taken good professional careers. All this while the parents work 2 or more jobs to get their kids what they themselves never had. I am sorry to say, that is severely lacking among many (too many) American citizens whose parents were born here. When kids are pushed to excel by a parental unit, they have a far better chance of doing just that, than waiting for the next pandering promise of a free-be."
My next door neighbors, one legally from China, the other from Korea, did not have college educations. They had 3 kids.
Number 1 did well in high school. Went to UTD (University of Texas at Dallas) local school and took pre-med courses. Worked summers and during the year. Took classes at night. Did very well. Got a internship job that paid his Masters and then Medical Degree.
Number 2 repeated the same track 2 years later. Zero debt through Med School
Number 3 did the same.
All worked 40 hours a week, attended class, managed to get intnernships/scholarships. Parents each worked. They all lived at home and commuted.
What else can you say? The kids had drive. Were very motivated to WORK and STUDY and STUDY and excel.
Meanwhile, lots of spoiled native born kids loaf through college and pile up debt with easy courses to get their degree and expect big rewards for doing it. Barely work to earn a few bucks as ‘momma and papa’ send them oodles of money and they borrow $30,000 a year to pay for their education toward a liberal arts degree.
t.
How many Fools remember that student loans could not be discharged via bankruptcy?
-and how many remember that, 50 years ago, government funded higher education so well that most could attend a state university without incurring a huge debt? Bit. since then, government funding for education has been cut sharply, so the money could be handed to the “JCs” instead.
Lecturing people about “personal responsibility” when they can’t pay the huge debt incurred to get the same education their parents got for peanuts, thanks to the GI Bill, or high levels of government subsidy for education, is not very productive.
Steve
Who pays for forgiven school loans?
A civilized nation.
++++++++++++++
Perhaps a being a little more specific would be more honest. “Just who are those folks in the civilized nation who are pegged to cough up the dollars?”
Sounds like echos of “you didn’t build that”?
Who paid for the GI bill? I ask because that turned out to be the deal of the millennium. It turned an unemployed middle class into the most productive group of people in the history of the world.
The GI bill, I would note, was not promised to anyone ahead of time, nobody signed up because the Army was offering a free ride to college when you got back from the war. The benefit was offered after-the-fact, and it was enormously successful.
Who paid for the Marshall Plan, by the way? And that one turned out to be the deal of the century. It kept the rabblerousing politicians at bay and rebuilt Europe so they could become great customers for US factories, which they did.
YSou seem to think every tax dollar spent is a dollar lost. It’s quite often the other way around, a tax dollar turns into a greater benefit for all of society - including you. Shame you can’t see that.
Who paid for the GI bill? I ask because that turned out to be the deal of the millennium. It turned an unemployed middle class into the most productive group of people in the history of the world. Again you do not answer that question directly. Just like an inability to look one in the eye, very suspicious.
The GI bill, I would note, was not promised to anyone ahead of time, nobody signed up because the Army was offering a free ride to college when you got back from the war. The benefit was offered after-the-fact, and it was enormously successful. It was in exchange for serving rather than going to college or trade school in a time of war. They did not want them to be handicapped for serving their country.
Who paid for the Marshall Plan, by the way? And that one turned out to be the deal of the century. It kept the rabblerousing politicians at bay and rebuilt Europe so they could become great customers for US factories, which they did. Stretch it.
YSou seem to think every tax dollar spent is a dollar lost. It’s quite often the other way around, a tax dollar turns into a greater benefit for all of society - including you. Shame you can’t see that.
So lets go into debt 100 Trillion and save the world just by throwing money around. Oh wait, there are many a place where that has not worked already. Most of Africa, South/Central America, Caribbean, Ghettos, etc.
YR
every tax dollar spent is a dollar lost.
We are all old enough to have heard the narrative for forty years: every dollar channeled to the people who already have the most is “job creation”, therefore good, while every dollar that somehow benefits anyone else is “socialism”, therefore bad.
Add to your list of the GI Bill and the Marshall Plan, the Interstate Highway system that facilitates the movement of goods and people with vastly more flexibility than railroads. The FAA that facilitates the movement of air traffic.
Saw a meme on FB this morning: “if you have a problem with the student loan cancellation because you already paid off your loans, just pretend it’s a tax cut for the rich, that you also never got, but mysteriously don’t complain about”.
What was the cost of that 2017 tax cut? $1T over ten years?
Steve
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/obamas-chief-economic-ad…
Jason Furman is an American economist and professor at Harvard University’s John F. Kennedy School of Government and a Senior Fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics.
“Pouring roughly half trillion dollars of gasoline on the inflationary fire that is already burning is reckless. Doing it while going well beyond one campaign promise ($10K of student loan relief) and breaking another (all proposals paid for) is even worse.”
Who paid for the GI bill? I ask because that turned out to be the deal of the millennium. It turned an unemployed middle class into the most productive group of people in the history of the world.
Two different bills. The GI bill encouraged large number of those returned from the military and at loss for what to do, to go to college and change their lives. FIL went from being a mechanic in the Army to a rocket scientist working for NASA. It was used to pull away a significant segment of the returning population that had been at war away from the turmoil that would have otherwise hit the US by the large influx of veterans who now had to compete for their old place in life. Helped the veterans and helped everyone back home learn to deal with the instant situation cause by the return of so many all at once. It was an excellent thing.
This bill forgives debt already incurred to go to school. Doesn’t seem to encourage going to school, nor does it fix the root causes of the problem. May even make it worse, as institutions of higher learning simply increase the prices more, because they can as the public becomes conditioned to believe that debt will always be swept away. IMO, what it essentially is is bribery for future votes. When asked if it is fair to those who paid their debt, all the politicians can do is deflect the question and say: “Well, was this bill fair? Was that one?” Paraphrased, obviously. I am dying for some newsperson to ask, after getting the talking point above, to ask “So you are publicly stating that you are no better than your opposing political party?”
If it’s something a politician put together, from either party, it tends to be oriented towards buying someone’s vote rather than motivated by fixing a problem. You, dear voter, are just supposed to believe it fixes something. We the people always pay one way or another.
IP,
wondering if I will ever in my lifetime vote FOR somebody, rather than simply have to chose the least worst
ask what is the economic logic that allows for millions of illegals entering the country annually who will on balance have less than a 6th grade education?
I thought you went to High School
Add to your list of the GI Bill and the Marshall Plan, the Interstate Highway system that facilitates the movement of goods and people with vastly more flexibility than railroads. The FAA that facilitates the movement of air traffic.
Add to your list federal funding of science which created the internet and modern health care. The internet alone is estimated to be worth $2 Trillion/year. The US spends $140 Billion/year on R&D. The remaining $1.86 Trillion, plus all the health care advances and everything else is gravy.
Lecturing people about “personal responsibility” when they can’t pay the huge debt incurred to get the same education their parents got for peanuts, thanks to the GI Bill, or high levels of government subsidy for education, is not very productive…
Hi Steve,
How about those who worked two jobs while in school…and carried a full academic load so they could graduate in 4 years… so that they would not have any debt?
Cheers!
Murph
(not old enough for GI Bill; did not qualify for government subsidies)
(who also notes that part of the problem/debt is due to the inflation levels of a college education for the past few decades)
Add to your list federal funding of science which created the internet and modern health care. The internet alone is estimated to be worth $2 Trillion/year. The US spends $140 Billion/year on R&D. The remaining $1.86 Trillion, plus all the health care advances and everything else is gravy.
The narrative today is, what the government funded, was “big gummit picking winners and losers” (universally bad), therefor a gigantic waste of capital. We are assured that only the rich know how to properly use money, so the rich should have all the money, as I heard Jack Kemp say, plainly and clearly.
Steve
You mean bloat like this.
https://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/article/idea-texas-s…
A new report says that IDEA public schools were already being scrutinized by the Texas Education Agency in 2019 when the school board voted to lease a $15 million private jet. The vote came after IDEA told the state two weeks earlier that it would "strictly enforce" policies to be more financially responsible, the Houston Chronicle reports.
**IDEA, the biggest charter school network in Texas, eventually dropped plans to lease the private jet and the TEA opened an official investigation into its financial practices in 2021. However, this new report shows that the state was already looking into IDEA's financial practices before 2021.**
The Houston Chronicle reports that inquiries from the TEA began as far back as 2015, when a whistleblower came forward with information of the charter school network's financial malpractice. IDEA has since received $3 billion in funding for its 143 schools, 30 of which are in San Antonio.
Bold is mine.
How about those who worked two jobs while in school…and carried a full academic load so they could graduate in 4 years… so that they would not have any debt?
Even working the bowling alley job, at $1.75/hr, I could cover the tuition for about 2 credit hours each week I worked, a full load being about 15 hrs. I lived at home most of the time I was in college, because it was expedient, but not free, due to my slave labor inputs.
(who also notes that part of the problem/debt is due to the inflation levels of a college education for the past few decades)
I have posted on this board, multiple times, how the increase in college costs in Michigan, in inflation adjusted terms, are due to defunding of higher education by the state, with the costs being transferred to the students.
In 1990, Michigan sent $1.06 billion to the state’s public universities. If state spending on higher education had remained steady in 2014, when adjusted for inflation, universities would have received $1.92 billion. Instead, colleges got $1.26 billion, a 34 percent decrease after inflation.
As state support dropped, tuition skyrocketed. At least 60 percent of tuition increases at Michigan public universities over the past decade can be attributed to a drop in state funding.
The share of public university budgets coming from the state budget plummeted from 48 percent in 2001-02 to 21.5 percent in 2013-14, according to a report issued by the nonpartisan Michigan House Fiscal Agency. During that same period, the share of college budgets supported by tuition jumped from 44 percent to 71 percent.
https://www.bridgemi.com/talent-education/four-reasons-why-m…
…because ideology dictates the money be given to the “JCs”, while everything the state used to fund has to be rationed by ability to pay.
Steve
Well, Steve, I suppose if you want to avoid debt bad enough while carrying a full course load, one does this:
2.Work at a drycleaners as everything from cashier to wash-shirts person, to pressing to whatever needed doing.
Because of my performance at #2, talked the dry cleaner owner into providing a beat-up old van so I could start a fraternity/sorority dry cleaning/washing pick-up/delivery service. I had to “sell” each fraternity/sorority on my exclusive service. (They didn’t all accept; heck one guy “adopted” my idea and became competition).
Study late at night/weekends.
Average sleep about 6 hours/night; 8 on weekends.
If one wants something bad enough…and has the motivation to make it happen, the odds of it happening go way up! 
Cheers!
Murph
My wife posted this today.
https://twitter.com/AndiFerguson1/status/1562819319049756672…
What's actually unfair about college loans:
In 1972, I could pay my tuition at a private university working 14 hours/wk at minimum wage ($1200/yr & $1.60/hr).
In 2022, a student needs to work 101 hours/wk at minimum wage to cover tuition at the same school ($40K/yr & $7.65/hr)
This is for a small liberal arts college in Indiana.