# Yes Dorothy there are vehicles, on the road, without a steering wheel **URL:** \ **Category:** Macro Economic Trends and Risks\ **Created:** [June 6, 2024, 1:53am UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/yes-dorothy-there-are-vehicles-on-the-road-without-a-steering-wheel/105874 "2024-06-06T01:53:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![buynholdisdead](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/buynholdisdead/32/12874_2.png) [@buynholdisdead](https://discussion.fool.com/u/buynholdisdead)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2024, 1:53am UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/yes-dorothy-there-are-vehicles-on-the-road-without-a-steering-wheel/105874/1 "2024-06-06T01:53:33Z")
Keep up the technology is moving much faster than people think. > **[Las Vegas, let’s ride](https://zoox.com/journal/las-vegas)** > > Ground-up autonomy. Zoox isn't an updated car—it's a whole new form of transportation. With every detail designed around riders, not drivers. **Since June 16, 2023, our robotaxi has been driving on public roads in Las Vegas. No driver. No steering wheel or pedals.** Andy ---
**Author:** ![albaby1](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/albaby1/32/12772_2.png) [@albaby1](https://discussion.fool.com/u/albaby1)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2024, 12:58pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/yes-dorothy-there-are-vehicles-on-the-road-without-a-steering-wheel/105874/2 "2024-06-06T12:58:33Z")
Yep. And currently under investigation by the NHTSA to review whether it actually complies with the FMVSS: [https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-opens-probe-into-amazons-zoox-robotaxi-self-certification-2023-03-06/](https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-opens-probe-into-amazons-zoox-robotaxi-self-certification-2023-03-06/) ---
**Author:** ![Leap1](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/leap1/32/72176_2.png) [@Leap1](https://discussion.fool.com/u/Leap1)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2024, 1:15pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/yes-dorothy-there-are-vehicles-on-the-road-without-a-steering-wheel/105874/3 "2024-06-06T13:15:44Z")
Self certification makes it like the Catholic Church. ---
**Author:** ![btresist](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/btresist/32/1678_2.png) [@btresist](https://discussion.fool.com/u/btresist)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2024, 2:18pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/yes-dorothy-there-are-vehicles-on-the-road-without-a-steering-wheel/105874/4 "2024-06-06T14:18:21Z")
> [@albaby1](#): > > And currently under investigation by the NHTSA to review whether it actually complies with the FMVSS: Apparently not having a steering wheel or pedals is **not automatically disqualifying**. ---
**Author:** ![MarkR](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/markr/32/2011_2.png) [@MarkR](https://discussion.fool.com/u/MarkR)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2024, 2:34pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/yes-dorothy-there-are-vehicles-on-the-road-without-a-steering-wheel/105874/5 "2024-06-06T14:34:31Z")
I rode in one of those (or something that looks exactly like it) at the [FAV (Florida Automated Vehicles) Summit](https://favsummit.com) a few years ago. It was on a public road that was closed for demos during the duration of the conference. It drove painfully slowly at the time, but it was pretty cool being in a moving vehicle without any driver at all. ---
**Author:** ![albaby1](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/albaby1/32/12772_2.png) [@albaby1](https://discussion.fool.com/u/albaby1)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2024, 2:34pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/yes-dorothy-there-are-vehicles-on-the-road-without-a-steering-wheel/105874/6 "2024-06-06T14:34:38Z")
> [@btresist](#): > > Apparently not having a steering wheel or pedals is **not automatically disqualifying**. We’ll find out when they make their decision. Amazon/Zoox has a chance to plead their case and see if they can get NHTSA to a different position than they took with GM. We’ll see how it turns out. ---
**Author:** ![buynholdisdead](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/buynholdisdead/32/12874_2.png) [@buynholdisdead](https://discussion.fool.com/u/buynholdisdead)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2024, 4:19pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/yes-dorothy-there-are-vehicles-on-the-road-without-a-steering-wheel/105874/7 "2024-06-06T16:19:53Z")
> [@albaby1](#): > > We’ll find out when they make their decision. Amazon/Zoox has a chance to plead their case and see if they can get NHTSA to a different position than they took with GM. We’ll see how it turns out. It really doesn’t matter how it turns out. It is already operating on the road right now so the precedent has been set. All else it just noise. Andy ---
**Author:** ![albaby1](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/albaby1/32/12772_2.png) [@albaby1](https://discussion.fool.com/u/albaby1)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2024, 4:21pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/yes-dorothy-there-are-vehicles-on-the-road-without-a-steering-wheel/105874/8 "2024-06-06T16:21:46Z")
> [@buynholdisdead](#): > > It really doesn’t matter how it turns out. It is already operating on the road right now so the precedent has been set. All else it just noise. Unless NHTSA finds that they violate the FMVSS and they have to remove them from the road. ---
**Author:** ![buynholdisdead](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/buynholdisdead/32/12874_2.png) [@buynholdisdead](https://discussion.fool.com/u/buynholdisdead)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2024, 4:28pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/yes-dorothy-there-are-vehicles-on-the-road-without-a-steering-wheel/105874/9 "2024-06-06T16:28:42Z")
> [@albaby1](#): > > Unless NHTSA finds that they violate the FMVSS and they have to remove them from the road. So you are saying if the NHTSA finds they violated the FMVSS that there will never be a car without a steering wheel, and I am saying since they have put the vehicle on the road already that the chances they will have a vehicle without a steering wheel has gone up significantly. I would say we have a 90 percent chance that they will have a vehicle without a steering wheel in the next year, somewhere in the world, that will be operating with the governments blessing. Andy ---
**Author:** ![albaby1](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/albaby1/32/12772_2.png) [@albaby1](https://discussion.fool.com/u/albaby1)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2024, 4:33pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/yes-dorothy-there-are-vehicles-on-the-road-without-a-steering-wheel/105874/10 "2024-06-06T16:33:18Z")
> [@buynholdisdead](#): > > So you are saying if the NHTSA finds they violated the FMVSS that there will never be a car without a steering wheel, and I am saying since they have put the vehicle on the road already that the chances they will have a vehicle without a steering wheel has gone up significantly. No. I’m saying that putting a car on the road without a steering wheel has zero effect on the chances there will be a car on the road with a steering wheel in any given time period. If the NHTSA finds the car violates the FMVSS, then there won’t be a car without driver controls until either the FMVSS are changed or there’s an exemption granted. That’s not going to be affected by Amazon/Zoox jumping the gun and putting the car on the road beforehand. They’re not creating precedent or “facts on the ground” with a limited number of Zoox vehicles. Not that there will **never** be a car without driverless controls - just that NHTSA may decide that there are regulatory hurdles that have to be passed through before they can be lawfully put on the road. ---
**Author:** ![buynholdisdead](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/buynholdisdead/32/12874_2.png) [@buynholdisdead](https://discussion.fool.com/u/buynholdisdead)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2024, 4:38pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/yes-dorothy-there-are-vehicles-on-the-road-without-a-steering-wheel/105874/11 "2024-06-06T16:38:41Z")
> [@albaby1](#): > > No. I’m saying that putting a car on the road without a steering wheel has zero effect on the chances there will be a car on the road with a steering wheel in any given time period. Well obviously that is the wrong tack to take because Vegas already has the car on the road operating. Like we discussed before, and I stated, States are taking the option away from the federal government. Just like Marijuana and abortion. Do you see a trend here? Andy ---
**Author:** ![albaby1](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/albaby1/32/12772_2.png) [@albaby1](https://discussion.fool.com/u/albaby1)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2024, 4:46pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/yes-dorothy-there-are-vehicles-on-the-road-without-a-steering-wheel/105874/12 "2024-06-06T16:46:50Z")
> [@buynholdisdead](#): > > Well obviously that is the wrong tack to take because Vegas already has the car on the road operating. Like we discussed before, and I stated, States are taking the option away from the federal government. Just like Marijuana and abortion. Do you see a trend here? No. The federal government doesn’t have regulatory authority over abortion, and has **chosen** not to exercise its authority over enforcement of marijuana possession (though they still **very much** are enforcing banking and financial regulations on that subject, which is one of the problems marijuana firms have). If the NHTSA **stops** Zoox from having their cars on the road, then they won’t have the cars on the road operating anymore. Unlike abortion, the NHTSA actually has regulatory authority to stop Zoox if they decide they violate the FMVSS. And unlike enforcing laws against marijuana possession, they don’t **need** states’ cooperation - they can just send Amazon/Zoox an enforcement order, and Amazon/Zoox will comply. ---
**Author:** ![buynholdisdead](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/buynholdisdead/32/12874_2.png) [@buynholdisdead](https://discussion.fool.com/u/buynholdisdead)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2024, 6:00pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/yes-dorothy-there-are-vehicles-on-the-road-without-a-steering-wheel/105874/13 "2024-06-06T18:00:13Z")
> [@albaby1](#): > > If the NHTSA **stops** Zoox from having their cars on the road, then they won’t have the cars on the road operating anymore. Unlike abortion, the NHTSA actually has regulatory authority to stop Zoox if they decide they violate the FMVSS. And unlike enforcing laws against marijuana possession, they don’t **need** states’ cooperation - they can just send Amazon/Zoox an enforcement order, and Amazon/Zoox will comply. You are saying **IF** sounds like you are not sure of your reasoning. I am saying it is a done deal. Andy ---
**Author:** ![albaby1](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/albaby1/32/12772_2.png) [@albaby1](https://discussion.fool.com/u/albaby1)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2024, 6:31pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/yes-dorothy-there-are-vehicles-on-the-road-without-a-steering-wheel/105874/14 "2024-06-06T18:31:49Z")
> [@buynholdisdead](#): > > You are saying **IF** sounds like you are not sure of your reasoning. I am saying it is a done deal. Why would it be a done deal? The NHTSA has the last word. They opened an investigation, rather than just letting Zoox keep going. So they clearly believe that what Zoox is doing might violate the FMVSS. The fact that Zoox went ahead and did it anyway doesn’t change anything - if what they’re doing violates the regulations, the fact that they’ve already started violating the regulations isn’t going to be a point **in their favor** , after all. ---
**Author:** ![buynholdisdead](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/buynholdisdead/32/12874_2.png) [@buynholdisdead](https://discussion.fool.com/u/buynholdisdead)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2024, 10:22pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/yes-dorothy-there-are-vehicles-on-the-road-without-a-steering-wheel/105874/15 "2024-06-06T22:22:06Z")
> [@albaby1](#): > > Why would it be a done deal? Because it is being done in Nevada and you think that the Feds are going to stop them. You really do not understand Nevada very well. Andy ---
**Author:** ![Hawkwin](https://g.foolcdn.com/misc-assets/discourse-member-avatar_120px_green600.png) [@Hawkwin](https://discussion.fool.com/u/Hawkwin)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2024, 10:36pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/yes-dorothy-there-are-vehicles-on-the-road-without-a-steering-wheel/105874/16 "2024-06-06T22:36:39Z")
> [@buynholdisdead](#): > > Because it is being done in Nevada and you think that the Feds are going to stop them. You really do not understand Nevada very well. Now hold on a minute. You really think Nevada is going to not follow the direction of the NHTSA if they rule that those vehicles are not street legal? Really? Let’s explore JUST ONE aspect of such a decision that would be VERY perilous for any state to ignore a safety ruling of the national body. The state would most certainly open themselves to significant legal jeopardy if they explicitly ignore the NHTSA as it pertains to vehicle safety. Any accident involving those vehicles will result the state having liability for intentionally and willfully not follow safety protocols. I don’t know why you would assume the state would be so vested in this small project to the point that they would ignore a federal safety ruling. ---
**Author:** ![buynholdisdead](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/motleyfoolfree/user_avatar/discussion.fool.com/buynholdisdead/32/12874_2.png) [@buynholdisdead](https://discussion.fool.com/u/buynholdisdead)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2024, 10:42pm UTC](https://discussion.fool.com/t/yes-dorothy-there-are-vehicles-on-the-road-without-a-steering-wheel/105874/17 "2024-06-06T22:42:17Z")
> [@Hawkwin](#): > > You really think Nevada is going to not follow the direction of the NHTSA if they rule that those vehicles are not street legal? > > Really? No I don’t think the NHTSA will rule that the cars are illegal because they won’t want to fight with Nevada over it. This isn’t the states first Rodeo with Prostitution and Gambling. What the NHTSA is going to do is tell them to mind it and watch for accidents. If someone gets killed then yes they will shut it down, but since the business is already open, you do not think they ran this past the Nevada legislature and Governor? Of course they did. Andy Edit: One more point. People were arguing before that a company would not even be able to put this type of car on the road at all. Well obviously that was wrong.