30-year home appreciation by city

"Our written offer was accepted in writing. Yes, we got the house. Tomorrow is an inspection. Then off to the regular closing process. Next we have to prepare our current house to sell.

PSU "


Congrats!!!

Howie52
I don’t think selling will be as much fun - but finishing the whole enchilada will be a
treat.

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GH: 3. I absolutely look at my house as an investment. Someday I expect I will be moved into an assisted living facility, and I want to have enough equity (somewhere) to make sure it’s a nice one. My brother-in-law works in one for medicaid patients only, and you do not want to end up there. My sister-in-law lives in a double-wide, and while it’s comfortable for her now, when she goes to sell it (it sits on someone else’s land) she will get very little to show. With ease she could have bought something that would appreciate, but she took the cheap & easy way instead.

Who do you expect will move you into an assisted living facility? Your children? Spouse? Yourself? It is true that there are still pure assisted living facilities, but the recent trend is to Continuing Care Residential Communities - CCRC’s. A CCRC provides four levels of living. Independent living (the first level) is the goal for us all, but if the day comes when we need assistance, a CCRC will provide that. Can be as little as needing help bathing or dressing. Sadly, some of us will become senile (Lose our marbles - ever know anyone like that?) At this time we need more care, and typically we need to be kept from wandering off and getting lost, or worse, getting in our car and killing someone. At that time we need what is euphemistically called “memory care” - kept in a closed community. Lastly, we may become so ill or bed-ridden that we need someone to physically take care of us. Skilled nursing care is provided at a CCRC.

Last October we moved to a CCRC in Southern California. We sold our house for enough to pay for the move (plus a little left over). The monthly rent is staggering, but it covers maintenance, meals, and potential future needs for assistance or care. We have a two bedroom apartment, but we are “merely rich”. The truly rich can afford a larger apartment, or even an apartment in a four-plex, or a duplex. There are even a few free-standing houses in our complex. Interesting to me is that three years in, there are still unoccupied apartments, but the larger units are all fully subscribed, with a waiting list.

The community is active and there are social opportunities in the form of clubs, organized games (bridge, anyone?) and outings. There is a nice movie theater. The food is good and plenteous, served in a restaurant setting. (I wonder why everyone here isn’t fat!)

Come on in! The water’s fine!

I am sure the Goofyhoofys would be comfortable here without feeling they were in a slum.

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I don’t think selling will be as much fun - but finishing the whole enchilada will be a
treat.

We thought it was fun to get multiple offers for well over our (absurdly high) asking price.

CNC

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The community is active and there are social opportunities in the form of clubs, organized games (bridge, anyone?) and outings. There is a nice movie theater. The food is good and plenteous, served in a restaurant setting. (I wonder why everyone here isn’t fat!)

Come on in! The water’s fine!

I am sure the Goofyhoofys would be comfortable here without feeling they were in a slum.

Sounds like my parents when they first moved into their CCRC. They loved it…until they didn’t. That took about two years, then they abandoned half their substantial buy in and walked away.

IP

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Sounds like my parents when they first moved into their CCRC. They loved it…until they didn’t. That took about two years, then they abandoned half their substantial buy in and walked away.

IP

Where did they walk to? House? Apartment? I have seen several elderly people living alone in a house by themselves, and I don’t find that pretty.

CNC

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Where did they walk to? House? Apartment? I have seen several elderly people living alone in a house by themselves, and I don’t find that pretty.

Moved in with my sister for about 10 years with sporadic hissy fit exits by Dad, dragging Mom behind him, to an apartment, then back to Sis’ when we rescued them from that, to another CCRC without a buy in that he got them kicked out of after trying to take over management, then he bought the foreclosure next door to her house in another fit of pique when she would not let him dictate to her in her house.

As Dad got older, he fought back against his declining control over his own life, often using very poor judgement. Some, like the apartment, RV and another house he tried to buy, we rescued him from. His cancelling his LTHC policy when they were most likely to need it, buying a foreclosure that had no legal rights to a well for water and only an understanding between two people who were no longer alive, and losing hundreds of thousands of dollars to a shyster annuity salesman, we could not resolve for him. Lots of Alzheimer’s in our family and we are pretty sure he was in the start of it, though he did fine with the stupidly easy to pass competency test. The problems came on pretty suddenly after a 10 hour surgery. Being under anesthesia can change a person’s behavior and this resulted in a 6 month manic state followed by rotations from manic to depressed back to manic. Tons of fun. I only brushed the surface with the references to the problems we dealt with post surgery. Life is not in your control.

He had his retirement all figured out, and had done a good job initially getting all of his ducks in a row, disassembling that fine work piece by piece as he lost control. The state they were living in did little to help rein him in as he fell further and further in decline. Sis talked to the Sherriff twice about his almost running people she knew off the road and they told her to mind her business. The third person he almost ran off the road was a Sherriff, and they finally took his license away. He passed his competency “test” by knowing what year it was and who the POTUS was. Mom failed hers, and after an interview where Dad’s reply was “They shoot horses, don’t they?” to the social worker, who asked him how he felt about Mom’s condition, Sis easily won custody of Mom. Custody of an incompetent spouse does not automatically go to the other spouse.

No, getting old is not easy. I have helped put out too many fires for Mom and Dad to believe that. Worse for some than others, but it is an illusion that being in a CCRC is a gold plated answer to the problem. It just costs solid gold to be in a good one. The overall takeaway I got from our issues with Dad is that you have to learn how to protect yourself from yourself as you age. We are still trying to figure out how to do that.

Our current answer to that future problem is live in aides. We have a downstairs apartment for that purpose. Hopefully by the time we need that, there will be an answer to the aide shortage, like Elder Au Pair. I am certainly open to ideas.

IP

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Where did they walk to? House? Apartment? I have seen several elderly people living alone in a house by themselves, and I don’t find that pretty.

My mother is 89 years old and lives alone in a house. Actually, she has two homes and lives partial years in each. She enjoys her life and has plenty of visitors at both locations.

PSU

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My mother is 89 years old and lives alone in a house. …enjoys her life and has plenty of visitors…

May her happy situation continue.

DH & I intend to live independently into our 100’s. Some people do, why not us?

Of our 4 parents, 2 died somewhat suddenly, the other 2 had gradual declines into their 90’s. DH’s dad died at 93, after living with DH’s sister for a few years and then in a nursing home for the last few weeks. My dad is still chugging along at 96, having had aides visit his house starting when he was 90, then moving to Assisted Living (in a CCRC, but skipping the IL part) when he was 93.
Starting when they were in their mid-80’s, they gradually lost the ability to perform IADL’s; then ADL’s; but I feel own timeline will be better than theirs.

The catch is that Dad landed in AL after a crisis, and what I learned was that, if you ever need to go to AL, then either you choose the place yourself before you need it (which is smart, because the best places have waiting lists), or you take whatever’s available on short notice.

Are DH and I willing to gamble that we’ll never need AL? Realistically, we might compromise by moving to IL in a CCRC, and crossing fingers we never need to take the next step to AL. But at least, if AL is needed, it won’t be a mad scramble to find a place, and we’ll already be somewhere where we know people and have friends.

Of course, I’m crossing fingers that CCRC’s have improved since IP’s parents tried them.

And IP is correct that CCRC’s are not a magic wand. My sister not only visits Dad a couple times a week, bringing Depends, toiletries, snacks, and mail; but also takes him out to the dermatologist (who recently performed Mohs surgery successfully), the dentist, etc. Meanwhile, I handle Dad’s finances, ensuring that Sis, AL, the private duty aide, and the AL aide who freelances by taking care of Dad’s parakeets, all get paid; that taxes are filed, that denied claims are appealed to Medicare, etc. I often wonder: for people without family, who does all that?

Specifically: when DH & I select a CCRC, would it have to be near one of our children, so they can take us to doctors’ appointments? One of my friends is an RN who works in a doctor’s office, and reports that when aides bring patients in, the aides “are useless.” I think it’s better to have a family member who can understand what’s going on, and help with decisions. Having to stay close to our children would severely restrict us geographically when we hunt for a good CCRC.

I don’t consider in-home aides to be a good long-term solution, because somebody still has to manage them. I found that managing Dad’s in-home aides was far more onerous than managing his situation in AL. If it turns out that DH or I need an in-home aide, that will be a definite trigger to find a CCRC and move there ASAP, crossing fingers we still qualify for IL.

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Sounds like my parents when they first moved into their CCRC. They loved it…until they didn’t. That took about two years, then they abandoned half their substantial buy in and walked away.

Seems to me that you lock yourself in with no guarantee, and no recourse when/if they decide to change the deal.

My mom bought a house in a Dell Webb 55+ community. It was quite nice. Every change of season they would replace the plants & flowers in the large beds at the entrance gate to the current season – always very nice.

They had a contractor that took care of driveway snow plowing and grass cutting. Everybody paid the same fee, you could decide to take the service or not. BUT…you could not hire your own service. You could cut your grass yourself or pay the monthly service fee, but you could NOT hire somebody else to come in to cut your grass. And the monthly fee was about twice what other companies charged. You couldn’t take just one service, couldn’t have them cut your grass but you’d shovel your own driveway. Both or neither.

Shortly after the development was filled out, all the houses built…the flowers stopped getting changed and watered. Whatever was left was just left to die. Weeds took over.

Then Dell Webb sold out to another company. Tennis courts untended and decayed. Swimming pools never cleaned and always dirty. What could you do? Nothing.

It’s the timeshare model. Developer shows and does all kinds of nice things at first. Later on, after you have paid your money, after they’ve sold all the units, they leave and everything goes to pot.

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Seems to me that you lock yourself in with no guarantee, and no recourse when/if they decide to change the deal.

Yes, for Dad the original owners were great, and their contracts stipulated limits to how much the contracted fees could increase annually, but it didn’t stop the new company from imposing new limits on what you could do and the new fees that would now be imposed for the company to do for you what you were now told was no longer an option.

Dad felt his autonomy, in IL, was being erased and they were being treated like children. I don’t disagree. Stupid policies like a resident could no longer bring a food tray back up from the dining room, a high school student earning minimum wage had to do it and of course there was a fee. The company argued that was to eliminate spillage, which was more than a bit off-putting to Dad considering he was younger than most on this board, and he had more than once witnessed one of these 15 year olds spilling food.

They would also get season tickets to the symphony or play house, but drive themselves there so that they could go out to eat before the show. It became necessary to also buy the bus transportation if they wanted to buy the tickets. Wasn’t an impossible policy to get around, but a loss of a convenience and the shows were never sold out. Just a constant drip of loss of independence and imposition of more and more fees. It is unhealthy for seniors to have their independence taken away, with retention of as much independence as possible for as long as possible preferable. That leads to a longer healthier life, which ironically is counter to the fiscal health of the CCRC, who really wants you to move on to the next level of living, so that they can sell someone else your apartment, not to mention charge you higher rates. IIRC, their buy-in was $200K about 25 years ago. Moving a client up from IL to AL made stronger business sense than keeping you healthy.

IP

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It’s the timeshare model. Developer shows and does all kinds of nice things at first. Later on, after you have paid your money, after they’ve sold all the units, they leave and everything goes to pot.

Timeshares are fine, as long as you’re on the right side of the deal. Years ago I owned a company called Cendent that did timeshare marketing, wonderful business.

Nobody ever lost money betting on the ignorance and innumeracy of the American people.

intercst

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Dell Webb sold out to another company. Tennis courts untended and decayed. Swimming pools never cleaned and always dirty. What could you do? Nothing.

My parents bought a house in a new Del Webb community about 18 years ago. After all the houses were built and sold, Del Webb turned management over to the owners-elected board of the HOA, who hired a management company. I’m not sure if the management company selects the landscapers, or if the HOA does that directly. Either way, the HOA oversees everything, and the community is still very well maintained and attractive.

Of course, residents squawk about having to obey the rules, and pay the dues (especially when they go up), but they’re all very happy that their property values keep going up.

If things change, what could residents do? Elect new board members.

“It’s the timeshare model. Developer shows and does all kinds of nice things at first. Later on, after you have paid your money, after they’ve sold all the units, they leave and everything goes to pot.”

Usually at that point, they turn over the responsibility to a HOA…and probably underfund it… so there isn’t sufficient funds to cover annual operating expenses at current assessment levels.

Same goes for condos… time shares… etc.

Then you have to go after the deadbeat owners to fork up…

t

May her happy situation continue.

If it doesn’t and she needs assisted living, she already has instructions for my sister on what type of living arrangements that she would like to be in. My sister has all the legal authorities to oversee her care and estate and will make all decisions for the family.

PSU

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IP: No, getting old is not easy. I have helped put out too many fires for Mom and Dad to believe that. Worse for some than others, but it is an illusion that being in a CCRC is a gold plated answer to the problem. It just costs solid gold to be in a good one. The overall takeaway I got from our issues with Dad is that you have to learn how to protect yourself from yourself as you age. We are still trying to figure out how to do that.

Yikes! Your story about your dad is scary. He seems to need more help than he can legally be required to have. He certainly should not be driving.

I am reminded of my FIL, who had a couple of minor fender benders which I attribute to his senility - not the right word, but he wasn’t able to judge distances and speeds well. I don’t know all the details but at some point the DMV invited him in for a test (in his mid 80’s). He easily passed the written part, but not the driving part and they took his license. I recalled that he had gotten a navigator thingy (a gift from the Countess) a few years ago which he regularly used even if he well knew where he was going. Once when they came to our house for dinner, he missed his turn to our street, where he had been several times, and the navigator got him back to our street. I remember other episodes that alarmed me, but he finally stopped driving. He did a couple of other grotesque things I now attribute to senility. His general health was declining at the same time, and he eventually was house bound, and eventually bed bound. (He died last December.)

Getting old sucks. It’s hard on the relatives, as well as the one aging.

It sounds like your father has always been an independent minded person and he has a hard time yielding any of his independence I don’t envy you in your journey with your dad.

CNC

My mother is 89 years old and lives alone in a house. Actually, she has two homes and lives partial years in each. She enjoys her life and has plenty of visitors at both locations.

PSU

She is one of the lucky ones.

CNC

She is one of the lucky ones.

She is. I know that genetics is supposed to only play a small part but her mother lived to 94 and her grandparents to mid 90s.

PSU

The overall takeaway I got from our issues with Dad is that you have to learn how to protect yourself from yourself as you age. We are still trying to figure out how to do that.

My dad did nothing as extreme as IP’s – but this is my takeaway too. This mental lapsing in judgment is probably the strongest argument I’ve heard for waiting on SS too (or at least one person of a couple) but ignored by most people due to lack of similar experience (my Dad had a good pension so even when all his savings were gone due to poor age related choices, he was able to still do ok).

As far as getting around, I’m hoping for self-driving cars by that time LOL
As far as the money side-- that one is much harder since the only way I know (certain trusts) depends on being willing to give up control of your money to someone else (and still wouldn’t stop you from signing for such things as a mortgage, or running up CC debt etc)

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She is one of the lucky ones.

I don’t think this is true anymore – I know numerous people who were/are able to live at home until mid to late 80’s with no issues and active social lives. And another whole group of people who were able to stay at home far longer than normal due to a spouse (or another family member) who was still physically/mentally capable (i.e. they only needed a little help – check-ins or driving primarily).

The earliest I would want to think about moving to some kind of leveled care place would be early 80’s (unless there was some kind of known illness – in which case you probably wouldn’t get in at the first level).

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YewGuise: Specifically: when DH & I select a CCRC, would it have to be near one of our children, so they can take us to doctors’ appointments?

Most of the CCRC’s we have considered have transportation to medical appointments as well as regular scheduled shopping trips.

CNC