3rd Party Portfolio Managers

I recall this being discussed before, but I am unable to find the thread. So here we go again.

Ms. Alpha and I are retired. I’ve managed our retirement portfolio since we’ve been married. I have always enjoyed it. Warren Buffett isn’t calling me for advice, but we’ve comfortably exceeded our goals. As I like to say, I’m working on our 4th million.

Gave up on the first three.

Ok, so Ms. Alpha has a very conservative investor comfort level (think stuffing cash in the mattress) and has zero interest in investing (other than saying “no” when I tell her I’m making changes).

So, my concern is how to have the retirement savings managed should I pre-decease her (and if I keep forgetting to lift the toilet seat when I pee, may happen sooner than I anticipate).

Our retirement savings are held at Fidelity. A few years ago, we received a small (but not insignificant) inheritance from our uncle. For comparison purposes, we left it with the person who managed his portfolio (at a different national firm) until the estate was closed. My little conservative portfolio is easily outperforming him, before fees are taken out. So that’s not an option.

I am starting to look around to make arrangements for managing the savings before I kick the bucket. I’m looking into fixed fee scenarios. Any suggestions would be welcome.

AW

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Great question. I will likely face the same issue. Following.

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The usual advice is interview candidates to see if you find one you like. There are lots of them out there. You can get many suggestions. Most brokers offer services. Many advertise. And many belong to professional associations or are certified.

As a practical matter, most will judge your risk tolerance and offer you one (or a blend) of four portfolios. Some will be individual stocks; some mutual funds; etfs.

You want one who earns your trust. Most will provide info on their past performance. That and personal recommendations is a good place to begin.

Wall Street Journal publishes a list of the largest financial managers across the country every quarter. I would expect such lists in sources like Baron’s too.

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Ok, so Ms. Alpha has a very conservative investor comfort level (think stuffing cash in the mattress) and has zero interest in investing (other than saying “no” when I tell her I’m making changes).

She sounds like someone who needs to be guided into index funds. I am sure Fidelity has suitable index funds, but otherwise open a Vanguard account for her. In any case get her started with an indexer. Show her how to track the fund’s behavior. Maybe she might even get interested if it’s “her” account. The Countess also has zero interest in stocks, so we have her in mutual funds. Maybe it’s time to get her involved with an indexer, too.

CNC

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Choose one of the Fidelity Asset Allocation funds:

https://www.fidelity.com/mutual-funds/fidelity-funds/overvie…

Set it and forget it.

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She sounds like someone who needs to be guided into index funds.

Hear hear. Keep her far away from your friendly local “financial advisor” with their “only 2% commission” who will likely steer her into proprietary funds owned by his employer (with only a 1.5% load) or into vehicles that earn him/her a fat commission (“Let me tell you about the benefits of annuities…”).

There are portfolios that require minimal attention, like the “Couch Potato” port. But if a person isn’t interested then they’re not interested.

You can construct a portfolio of 4 or 5 index funds that give you broad exposure to the market but without the kind of volatility of individual stocks. And most of them will last forever. If you want to have an income stream there are ETFs which focus on dividend payers, others that focus on, well, anything you want. (I consider ETF’s and index funds almost the same, the costs are very low.)

At that point in your/her life, you can safely forget about exotic strategies for tax avoidance and other nonsense and just live, but as Intercst notes, avoid the skim and you’ll do fine. Set up a few index funds and/or ETF’s, get OUT of the mutual funds and their annual fees and all will be well.

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Everybody’s situation is a bit different. It is very easy to say don’t get a Financial Advisor charging 1% because that is about a quarter of the return. That glib advice does not work so well for people who do not have children or younger siblings who can manage things. My wife and I have no children. We live in a retirement community where everybody is a senior - the neighbor we trust is just as likely to die next week as I am. History says few people are able to handle things like grocery shopping, bill paying and medical decisions in the last couple of years if they die from congestive heart failure - about a quarter of deaths.

After interviewing 5 different advisor options (including 3 different brokerage firms via “Zoom” meetings) we signed on the dotted line January 27th.

I think you are wise to address your risk tolerance with Ms Alpha. Maybe you have to assume risk - there are two kinds - market risk (which I sense it Ms Alpha’s concern) and inflation risk (which may or may not be real).

Here is one way to view those risks.

First Step - how long do you want to plan for. Myself - we are in better health and physical condition compared to other people our age. We also had parents who lived beyond average life spans. Just by reaching age 65, a person’s expected life span is significantly above the average – you are not one of those people who died at age 50 or 60 or 64! Go to here: https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html

As an example - assume your are female age 64. In the table you can see your life expectancy is 21.51 years. That means if you get a 1000 age 64 females in the Social Security system in 21.5 year 500 we will still be alive. No 64 year old wants to spend their last dollar in 21.5 years because at age 85 the average female life expectancy is 7.05 years. (Facing 7 years with no money is not a good plan.) So the prediction is 28 years ahead (21 + 7) 25% of the current 64 year old females will still be alive.

Personally I run this until there is less than 10% chance of being alive. The string goes 50%, 25%, 12.5% and 6.25%

Second Step - while nobody wants to waste money, there is a big difference between not having money to live comfortably and just not have as much as we could have had if we had done something different.

Continuing for the now 64 year old female we have 21 years + 7 years + 4 years – that is age 96 – 32 years in the future.

In the zero risk, zero return plan if you have $1,000,000 you can spend $31,250 of the pot each year. Now if we assume inflation is 2% a year for the last two years of this evaluation the $31,250 will have purchasing power reduced by 54.5% – so in terms of meat, potatoes and auto repair you will have the equivalent of $17,046. If you have many millions the loss of purchasing power is probably won’t matter. But if you really need to spend the $31,250 to be comfortable at the start of retirement life will not be very comfortable 25 or 30 in the future.

The market risk is real. But only look at the pile of money twice a year and stick to the plan even if you don’t want to. There is huge amount of evidence that says – if you use the 4% plan you will not run out of money for at least 30 years and might even have a very large pile of money 25 years out.

The 4% plan is roughly 60% in the S&P and 40% in an all bond index. Start in year #1 by taking 4% out i.e. $40,000 from the $1,000,000 and increase the withdraw each year by the amount of inflation - i.e. the same percentage your social security payments increase. (Note: the actual inflation for seniors is higher than the average - we spend more on things like medical where costs increase faster. We will spend less on cars and technology were prices do not increase as fast.)

You and Ms Alpha may not agree, but this kind of examination will make it easier to look at data and not fear of this risk vs that risk.

If your pot of money is in an IRA, the Required Minimum Distributions don’t exactly follow the 4% plan, but you will never run out of money because RMD tables never say take all the money out this year.

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At that point in your/her life, you can safely forget about exotic strategies for tax avoidance and other nonsense and just live, but as Intercst notes, avoid the skim and you’ll do fine. Set up a few index funds and/or ETF’s, get OUT of the mutual funds and their annual fees and all will be well.

This, but I think there’s a somewhat simpler way. Unthread I suggested a Fidelity asset allocation fund, since that’s where OP has their money. But Fidelity is a for profit entity. I have money in Fidelity accounts for diversification purposes, but not in any Fidelity products. I use Vanguard.

When my father in law asked us to take over his money we pulled it all from the advisor, who had him in 20 different mutual funds charging around 0.75% fees, with a 0.75% fee on top for the advisor. We put all his money into a single Vanguard Lifestrategy fund. They send his RMD to his bank every quarter, they rebalance the funds, they send a paper statement so he can look at it. Total cost 0.14%.

Why work harder?

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If your pot of money is in an IRA, the Required Minimum Distributions don’t exactly follow the 4% plan, but you will never run out of money because RMD tables never say take all the money out this year.

I never understood why people, especially financially savvy people who follow internet financial bulletin boards, can’t separate the forced taxation of IRAs from spending needs. RMD’s are not a mandate to spend money. They are a mandate to take money from one investment pot, pay tax on that amount (from that money or from “other” money), and put the remainder into another investment pot. Or to spend it. Or to spend what you need and put the remainder into the other investment pot.

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Let me approach this from a different angle. If you are the first to go, you will have no say in how Mrs. Alpha invests your — wait, that should be HER — money.

And if keeping it all in a savings account still allows her to live comfortably, what difference does that make? Isn’t the goal to make sure she is comfortable? It doesn’t really matter if the pile of money could be bigger, as long as it is big enough.

I can see a good argument for making things a bit simpler as time passes. So maybe pick an index fund or two and start slowly moving things there. Maybe whenever you decide you need to sell something, put the proceeds in the index fund then. Have any dividends from your stocks swept into the fund.

And I’d definitely have a talk with her about what to do if you become disabled. Maybe sell everything and put it in the index fund.

If you are of an age to be subject to RMDs, get those set up as automatic withdrawals now, while you are still able to do so. Yes, there may be some minor differences by picking and choosing when to take the RMD. But that isn’t going to make or break a retirement. So take them the first week or so of January. If you become disabled, they won’t be overlooked. If you die before taking them, she won’t have to worry about seeing that they happen.

To summarize, it sounds like Mrs. A isn’t one to follow a sophisticated investment program. So set up something simple that she will be willing and able to maintain.

—Peter

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Thank you all for your thoughts.

Lots to mull over, but I lean towards the low cost index funds/ETFs, some of which we already own.

You folks are the best!

AW

Heh, not a single response actually answered your question. Typical.

Here are few I found. I know nothing about them.

https://switchpointfinancial.com/why-flat-fees/

https://derivewealthadvisors.com/flat-fee-financial-advisor

https://www.claritycapitaladvisors.com/our-fixed-fee-pricing…

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Relevant thread on Bogleheads.

https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=37…

iShares core allocation ETFs are worth a look.

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