A few thoughts on Peloton (PTON)

I take some time to read PTON’s shareholder letter, which can be downloaded here: https://investor.onepeloton.com/financial-information/quarte…


Ending Connected Fitness Subscription
277    362    457    511
563    712    886    1091
49.2%  50.8%  51.6%  46.8%

Notes: This is their definition: A Connected Fitness Subscription means someone is paying for a subscription, including a “pause” to their subscription for up to 3 months.

Their subscription gross profit went up from $31.9M (2019 Q4) to $68.8M (2020 Q4). Note that their Q4 ends on 6/30.

I then take a look at their consolidated statements on p. 23.


                  Jun20 Mar20 Dec19 Sep19 Jun19 Mar19 Dec18 Sep18
HW Product Rev.   485.9 426.4 389.1 160.8 162.3 265.6 225.5 80.4
Subscription Rev. 121.2  98.2  77.1  67.2  61.0 51.1   37.3 31.7

October-December is a holiday season that they usually get double sales. Subscription steady increase – I’m a bit surprised why they are not proportional to the product sales. After all, I can’t find a reason someone buys a Peloton and choose no to subscribe. The only possible explanation is hotels or gyms where they just want to get the hardware (say bike). Still, this is a stretch.

Apparent there’s no sign that everything is going to be back to normal in the next three months. Given the COVID setup where all gyms (and flywheels, etc.) are close, it’s expected that their Sep20 (6/1/20-9/30/20) HW Rev is going to be beautiful. It’s probably at a range between 555-605, assuming that COVID contributes to two months of sales in 4/1/20-6/30/20. And thus their Subscription will be at least 155-180.

Holidays can only be a tailwind to their sales. Period. As a result that the earning calls for the next two quarters are going to be beautiful. Even we have vaccines, I believe people will not STOP their subscription. Emotionally speaking, if you already pay $2000+ for a high-end bike, there’s no reason for not paying $39 for a month, which is equivalent to (or less than) a one-hour indoor cycling class.

I don’t foresee any competitor except the controversial “prime bike.” I consider these copy-cats are opportunities for them to reap profit from people who cannot afford the product or chose not to pay for a $2000 bike.

I notice their profit margin for subscription is 56.7%, meaning that they have to pay about 43.3% to produce content. I expect this profit margin to go up as digital content can be easily reproduced. It becomes a moat for them because of their 1.09M subscriptions. I can tell that Apple Fitness+ is going to compete with them by providing cycling or running classes. While Apple is formidable, I don’t see a reason to worry at this moment. Firstly, it’s a new service and we don’t know whether it will become mainstream. I feel Apple Fitness is targeting all kinds of indoor exercises like HIITs or Cardio and most users with the Peloton watch programs when using their bikes and treads. I see no reason people will stop Peloton subscription and fully switch to Apple Fitness ($9.99). They need to get an iPad, a bike iPad holder, and an apple watch for a reason to save $30 per month. If cost is a concern, they probably won’t buy these high-end bikes or treads at the beginning.

I never use the product but given the churn rate (subscription) at 0.5-6%. As a comparison, the churn rate of Netflix is about 11%, and people say 11% is amazing.

I think Peloton will destroy business including orange theory fitness, flywheel sports, etc. People will still go to the gym for weight training or group class, but I see no reason to run treadmills or ride bikes with others.

I also believe they might introduce some gamification to destroy companies like zwift. We will see.

And they have positive EPS for the first time. I think this is a good sign. While I don’t mind investing growth companies with negative EPS, knowing that they are profitable is a good sign.

I think exercising is a habit. During the COVID people are trained to have such a habit to exercise at home. Once it becomes a habit, unless there’s a reason the habit is bad or something is significantly better, people don’t like to change. I also started indoor cycling (on some $300 indoor bike during COVID) and that’s why I believe I will keep doing it even the COVID is over.

Lastly, I checked their numbers before the COVID. The growth seems to be pretty healthy. The Revenue YOY between Sep19 (6/30/19-9/30/19) and Sep18 is more than 100%.

I’m interested in hearing a different opinion of why PTON is going to be a bad idea. While PTON is not a SAAS to companies, it seems to be a paradigm shift for some group exercise programs. And I can’t find any competitors today.

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I’m a bit surprised why they are not proportional to the product sales.

For one thing, some people already have a subscription and just upgrade their older model.

I’m a bit surprised why they are not proportional to the product sales.
and
For one thing, some people already have a subscription and just upgrade their older model.

And for another, you have those who joined PTON earlier and keep paying their subscription.

Simplified example: you sell 1’000 new bikes per month and gain 1’000 new subscriptions. These come on top of your recurring business from old members. If you had attracted 12’000 members in the past, you now have 13’000.
Enter Covid. You double new subscritpions to 2’000 per month. You now have 15’000 paying members, a growth of 15% (15’000/13’000). Without the acceleration, growth would have been only 7.5% (14’000/13’000)… so the growth rate has doubled, but not the revenue.

LNS

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I never use the product but given the churn rate (subscription) at 0.5-6%. As a comparison, the churn rate of Netflix is about 11%, and people say 11% is amazing.

I think this is the monthly churn rate for peloton vs the yearly for Netflix. A churn of 0.55% per month translates into 6.4% p.a. Still a good number.

I also believe they might introduce some gamification to destroy companies like zwift. We will see.

This I doubt. Zwift has a different offer targeting a different group of consumers. Zwift offers great watts-controled training possibilities to the competitive road cyclist (and runner). You ride on your real road bike in front of your laptop or tv. Think brutal interval training plans to optimize e.g. your speed uphill, only done in a virtual comic world. Think virtually racing other cyclists. I don’t think the many Zwift fans would switch to Peloton which is more like a virtual spinning class.

the earning calls for the next two quarters are going to be beautiful.

I share your confidence in Peloton’s upcoming quarters. I just took a starter position some days ago and plan to add soon.

My biggest worries are

  • will enough people have the money to spare to buy expensive bikes and a still fairly expensive monthly subscription.
  • will churn increase over time because they have begun attracting a new, less engaged group of consumers
  • and of course: will they be able to produce and ship enough bikes while the hype lasts?

LNS

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I am a competitive cyclist (Cat 3) and love Peloton. They have classes taught by former pros and their power meter racing works just as well as Zwift. Long term, they may be able to chip away at pro-am market. Besides, the typical competitive cyclist is affluent and can afford all of this. Most guys in my bike club have a peloton on top of every other piece of cycling gear imaginable.

I think what everyone is starting to see with PTON is the content is the moat. They attract the best instructors because they can offer them the largest audience. This is why Christian Vande Velde the former US pro who raced in the Tour de France has a class on PTON, not Zwift. This network effect is what will create a near-monopoly for them. No one else will be able to attract high-quality instructors, not even Apple. They will never have the scale.

Long PTON.

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""My biggest worries are

  • will enough people have the money to spare to buy expensive bikes and a still fairly expensive monthly subscription.
  • will churn increase over time because they have begun attracting a new, less engaged group of consumers
  • and of course: will they be able to produce and ship enough bikes while the hype lasts?“”

To address some of these points:

  1. From what we’re seeing, the pandemic is hitting the working class & students from an unemployment point of view, ie those in retail/hospitality/events. Young working professionals, Pelotons market, are not losing their jobs.

  2. I see churn remaining steady seeing as Peloton content is on a netflix level in terms of quality.

3)It is a concern in terms of the hardware, but if they get the content subscription model firing then this wont matter in years to come.

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Has the company delivered a forecast of their estimated market? When will they saturate it?

Rob
Rule Breaker / Supernova Starshot Home Fool & STMP/MTH Maintenance Coverage Fool
He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

I think it has been pointed out previously on this board, but this statement on guidance from the CFO in the most recent earnings CC caught my attention:

Now, on to our outlook, given where we are in the quarter, plus our significant backlog of bike delivery, we have a solid view into our first quarter results. So you should expect our Q1 results to map closely to the guidance that we’re offering you today.

They guided for $720 million to $730 million total revenue, 218% growth at midpoint (https://investor.onepeloton.com/static-files/0160c736-f0d2-4…)

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https://www.macworld.com/article/3574946/apple-fitness-what-…

I wouldn’t ignore Apple in this sector. I’ve invested in PTON and use the app, but I’ve kept my investment to a smaller holding because of the Apple threat. They are pushing hard into it and have a few advantages. Primarily their watch which now even reads your oxygen levels during a workout. This is a big deal for knowledgeable athletes.

I live across the street from the new Apple Fitness headquarters here in Santa Monica. They have already broken ground on a new building right next door. I see athletes going in and out of the building all day and night. Lots of filming going on. During construction their were these massive transformers going into the building, now I know why they needed all that power. Assuming they will be live streaming from this location.

TMB

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“No one else will be able to attract high-quality instructors, not even Apple. They will never have the scale.”

If Apple compensates its instructors better, then wouldn’t some Peloton instructors be tempted to migrate over? (I couldn’t find compensation stats for Apple.) That may put pressure on Peloton’s margins if it has to pay its instructors better. Subscription strength relies on content quality and quantity, and Apple has proven itself, on occasions, to be strong competitor in content purveyor. And Apple has plenty of cash to make it a cost leader.

This on Apple’s website regarding high quality instructors: “At launch, Fitness+ features a team of celebrated, charismatic, and passionate trainers who are specialists in their fields, working as a collective team to design and create outstanding fitness content, and appearing in each other’s videos welcoming everyone into the experience.
Each trainer has their own unique, inspirational story that transcends the screen. Spanning professional athletes, yogis, personal trainers, martial artists, health coaches, gymnasts, Ironman champions, marathoners, fitness club founders, and many others, Fitness+ trainers will offer an inviting, multidimensional experience for all.” https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2020/09/apple-fitness-plus-a-…

However, I do think Pelton has a strong first mover advantage, it’ll take some time for Apple to catch up. As of today Apple hasn’t launched its Fitness+ yet.

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Good points.

  • Has Apple’s video service hurt NFLX growth? No.
  • Has Apple’s music service hurt SPOT growth? No.
  • Has Apple’s fitness service hurt PTON growth? we shall see.

They are probably the only company that could pose a threat to PTON. But given PTON’s head start, Apple would need to execute perfectly to make a dent in the PTON market. And that’s one to two years out, maybe more. For now, PTON has two or three more quarters of blistering growth ahead.

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WRT competition possibilities…
Exercising IS a habit, and - IF you’re committing to it, and IF you have means - Peloton is compellingly more attractive than a fitness club with your 2015 Cybex/Arc Trainer pre-programmed mono-color graphics and crappy heartbeat monitors. Which all need to be sanitized every time someone uses them.

As long as CV makes people shy away from fitness clubs, which require commuting at least even from home, PTON will be a MUCH more attractive option with the social media / MMORP gaming model.

People like me who hate biking may never buy it (I can’t see buying it as it’s 10 years of a Planet Fitness membership), but - faced with another 6 months of winter weather / remote everything coming up - several of my acquaintances are and have already bought one. Those who did biking on the old school stationary bikes, are completely addicted to PTONs.

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I own Peloton. The Android to Apple for Peloton appears to be NordicTrack. However their bike is $1999 and Peloton just lowered the cost of their good bike to $1899 and just came out w their best bike at $2400 or something. Thus, why buy a NordicTrack? If you dig into the whole products here the value proposition f NordicTrack is less (even though it is a great bike) and all things equal, most would go Peloton for the Superior media and social media experience.

In this regard Peloton has really circled and flanked NordicTrack.

As for Zwift however, apples and oranges. Peloton is spinning and other group gym activities, Zwift is real simulated virtual cycling used even by Tour de France champions. The other day I was riding through London and up Box Hill with a thousand people from around the world. Peloton, the product, does not interest me as a cyclist. It probably never will.

There is some overlap in audience, but for the most part Zwift and Peloton serve different market segments that will not converge.

I own Peloton because of the tornados growth and competitive advantage (such as the example w NordicTrack above) and disruptive media property they are creating with large adjacencies like tread mills and rowers to go along w so many fitness media options. Who knows, Nike started out as a single running shoe. Now they are a product conglomerate and life style product.

Tinker

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