Aspen Aerogel and GM

Actually China is an important question - although less for trade war reasons for me.

The Buick brand is the one US auto maker brand that is present and massive in China. If the GM China JV can adopt Aspen Aerogel included batteries there that will be huge. It seems as though Ultium is being adopted there…

On the other hand BYD is moving away from Pouch battery technology towards Prismatic which could move the market…

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/byd-stop-making-pouch-batteries-its-hybrid-evs-leakage-concerns-sources-2024-01-17/

Notwithstanding these major players, the local EV and battery tech innovation scene in China is fierce.

Interesting discussion. Lots of potential but lots of uncertainty for me still.
Ant

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I would be interested to get some feedback on the supply side of Aspen’s business. My understanding is that Aspen has capacity to do up to 650M of revenue with their current manufacturing facilities.

They have the following plants/building,

  1. Rhode Island - their original manufacturing plant, still expanding and investing
  2. Georgia - Plant 2, currently blocked and awaiting the “potential restart of construction”, needs some additional approval from the Department of Energy Loan Programs Office
  3. Mexico - two manufacturing facilities in Apodaca, Mexico. First plant initiates the conversion process of “aerogel rolls”. Second plant completes the assembly of the final product, an encapsulated aerogel
  4. A warehouse under construction in Netherlands to be able to more easily distribute to European EV customers

My biggest concern is around the Georgia plant which seems like a sinkhole for CapEx at the moment and the company is talking about the “potential” of restarting construction which depends on loans. From what I gather the production of the product is fairly CapEx intensive and seems to require a lot of investment.

This is also tangentially related to my concern about the dilution that has occurred where the company over the years. Going back to the S1 there were 2.7M shares outstanding, and in just the last five years the shares outstanding has gone from 24.3M to 77.1M shares.


From what I’ve learned about manufacturing companies in industrials and biotech, some companies do actually plan to build their next expansions through share dilution.

Every time I come back to look at Aspen I keep getting hung up on starting an investment because this Georgia plant just seems to be burning through money with no planned end date, and I’m not confident management is very shareholder friendly.

On the other hand I believe this product is one of the first amazing results of nanotechnology being applied, and the demand is above what they can provide currently. This is the reason I’m not really that concerned as much about demand from EVs, but if the company can get its costs and manufacturing ramped up where it doesn’t cost the company a fortune.

This last earnings call sounds extremely impressive on operating efficiency and improved profitability. I’m still considering an investment here but I am wondering if they can actually deliver what they are projecting.


Adding one more item from the last question of the Q&A from the last earnings,

Don, congrats on all the progress. One comment and then a question. It seemed that the increase in top line guidance of around this $10 million is pretty conservative given that your baseline volumes have increased from 200 to roughly 225. So I’ll just let that hang. But on the second – the question on that is – on the DOE loan application process, is there a concern, and this is a good problem to have that the process could be delayed, that would prevent you from achieving the capacity that you will need to deliver in '26, '27 time frame?

And how are you planning for that potential delays that could materialize with the DOE?

Ricardo Rodriguez

Sure. So happy to – in reaction to the comment, I would just emphasize that it’s baseline or greater than. And so we understand that, but we don’t want to get ahead of our skis, right? Then in terms of any potential delays on the DOE loan. I mean, I think my answer there is just, no.

I mean we are moving as fast as we can on it. The DOE has been extremely engaged with us. I would not be surprised if within our team, we’re spending at least 10 hours with them on any given week, since we made it to the face of the process. And we obviously, cannot get ahead of expectations here disclosing something, but we are very optimistic about where we sit in the process. Everybody is incentivized to get this done before the election, and so we don’t expect any delays.

And that actually aligns perfectly with our timeline.

This raises two questions for me,

  1. Why was FY guide only raised 10M, if they came in 25M above projections on Q2?
  2. Why is the election relevant to the loan for the Georgia plant? Does this loan depend on which administration is there, and should we be concerned we are some ~20 days from the election and there is no announcement?
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Great questions.

First on supply capacity - the big change over the last year or so has been a transitioning to Pyrogel manufacturing in Plant 1, and outsourcing of Energy Industrial supply to a Chinese contract manufacturer. This approach has been largely validated in the last ER. So their energy industrials business can now be supplied by the Chinese contract manufacturer, and they focus exclusively on Pyrothin in Plant 1. The stated capacity of Plant 1 has expanded over the last couple of Q’s to what you stated above.

Now on to Plant 2, the one that worries you. This one has a history. They did, in fact get burned by EV exuberance - but a few years before the current point in time. They enthusiastically started investing in Plant 2 in 2021/2, raised equity to finance it, and then mothballed it, but kept it on life support. That tanked the share price.

In Q1 2023 they pivoted. This is important as it builds my confidence in the team to see that they did exactly what they set out to do in Q1 2023.

Here is the CEO quoted in Q1 2023 ER:

During this possible and even likely recession scenario, we are taking a conservative approach to the preservation of our capital which equal $205 million at the end of Q1 2023. During this period of time, we plan to reduce our OpEx and CapEx to grow our revenue significantly and to focus on our profitability.

The key pivot is to right time the final stages of the construction of Plant 2 in Statesboro, Georgia and in the meantime, to largely dedicate our Plant 1 aerogel manufacturing capacity in East Providence to PyroThin thermal barriers in order to serve our EV OEM customers. We estimate that we have the ability to generate approximately $400 million of PyroThin thermal barrier revenue from an EV dedicated Plant 1.

Our goal is to time the startup of Plant 2 to match the revenue ramp of our EV OEMs beyond the approximately $400 million of revenue capacity available for Plant 1. To put the approximately $400 million revenue number in content, we anticipate thermal barrier revenue of between $70 million and $100 million for the year 2023 and between $250 million and $300 million for 2024.

To be clear, we plan to slow our capital investments during 2023 and 2024, but not our growth. And at the same time, we will remain poised to take full advantage of our opportunities.

With respect to supplying our valuable energy industrial business, after one year of development and negotiations, we have reached a manufacturing agreement with a Chinese aerogel manufacturer to supply energy industrial product to us beginning no later than January 2024. The product will be produced to our quality specifications and shift by us under our labeling through our distribution and to our customers. We believe that the manufacturing agreement enables to maintain and grow our energy industrial business and to largely dedicate Plant 1 to our EV PyroThin thermal barrier business.

→ Since then they did exactly as they set out to do, and got efficiencies out of Plant 1 which allows them to get to a higher annual revenue than what they thought back then.

About the DOE loan. This one carries a lot of weight for me, as they will use this to fund Plant 2. It is worth noting though that they’ve made progress on cheaper financing sources even without the DOE loan as they very recently closed a favourable debt transaction of $225m which they said would unlock project financing for Plant 2 at treasury rates. They gave an update about this on 20 August. https://qcast.page.link/QS1ngMmoWoQXGL419 . That, and previous comments by the CFO makes me believe that they will try to finance Plant 2 with debt and not equity.

I would also argue that the current CFO Ricardo Rodriguez knows his debits from his credits, and was possibly brought in to right the ship. He first appeared in the ER’s in Q4 2021 as Chief Strategy Officer, and Q1 2022 he was CFO and the old CFO was gone. That transition was either a hospital pass, or the company already knew there was trouble brewing, as the share price languished for the whole 2022. They significantly missed earnings estimates as the EV boom was delayed. A year later in Q1 2023 they announced the “pivot” above.

Now your two specific questions:

  1. Why did they not raise their guidance more? I think they got burned previously by getting ahead of themselves and didn’t want to do it again. But in the Q&A it was clear that significant outperformance was possible: $50m-$65m on Pyrothin and $10-$20m on energy industrial for the year. But it’s not certain so they didn’t want to include it.
  2. Why is the election relevant? Maybe because the signatories, etc are well known and stable, and could change? Idk. But this one is important to me too, as getting this loan will mean that the DOE buys, and to my mind therefore endorses, the long-term forecast/future demand which will be served by Plant 2, which will have a capacity >$1b of Pyrothin. So if they do announce having gotten this loan in the upcoming ER, I think it will be hugely positive. And if they don’t, it will not sit very well with me becuase the CFO has now created the expectation that it will be done before the election.

Certainly not without risk, this one.

-wsm.

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My understanding after reading that August 20 report on the loan from MidCap is both for financing the Georgia plant, but also paying back the loan from Koch Strategic Platforms which was back in February 2022 made up of 100M of convertible notes, and 50M in stock.

They said this on the August 20th report,

Yesterday as this transaction closed, we used $150 million to cash-redeem the convertible note that subsidiaries of Koch Industries underwrote to Aspen in February of 2022. This note was accruing interest at a 9.5% PIK interest rate.

And the CFO commenting on the purpose of both the DOE loan and the Midcap loan said,

I mean I think they both just complement each other, and we felt the need to have this done to fund the business in the near term to address the overhang of the Koch note, which I mentioned in my remarks, but then also to have the flexibility and the structure that would accommodate something akin to the DOE loan or the DOE loan itself as it materializes.

These Koch loans also came with a lot of strings attached from what I gather as one analyst said,

Guys, as you get rid of these Koch notes, can you talk about the importance of eliminating some of the approvals that were necessary because of that note from Koch on any sort of corporate decision-making?

There’s three separate loans to keep track of here which are,

  1. The 150M loan from Koch Strategic Platforms, which is addition to a previous 75M investment by Koch
  2. MidCap’s recent loan, 125M term loan + 100M revolving credit
  3. DOE loan which an analyst suggested will be a 30-year term loan, and the CFO replied “I think they do a reference 10-year treasury rate”

All of these three loans are in addition to a failed equity offering they did back in June 2023 where they had it open for five days and then had to pull it from the market.


It just seems to me this company has an enormous appetite for taking on additional debt or stock dilution, whichever offers the better terms at the time. However, I do find the company taking a loan to pay off an earlier loan, while they are in the process of applying for a third government loan to be a red flag.

Despite all that I keep coming back to look at this company because the growth rates are impressive and the product seems to have huge demand and no competition. I just do not know where this stops with them taking on more debt and dilution.

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The parallels to AEHR are astounding! One customer, EV tied, a large technology moat, and an unclear path to wider adoption.

While GM has reduced its plan, it’s probably been taking as much as can be produced in the short term. In fact, it may have been stockpiling this product anticipating higher numbers. I’d be aware that a devastatingly bad quarter could be in the cards. Or not.

Will be interesting to see how this game of Roulette turns out.

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ASPN is up 16% pre-market. The DOE approved their loan for the plant in Georgia. https://www.technologyreview.com/2024/10/16/1105504/aerogel-ev-battery-fire/amp/

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ASPN also just announced preliminary 3Q results. Here is the high level summary:

Q3 2024 Preliminary Financial Results

The Company today announced the following select preliminary results for the quarter ended September 30, 2024:

  • Quarterly revenue of approximately $117 million.
  • Quarterly net loss of approximately $13 million, including a $27.5 million one-time charge from the extinguishment of the Company’s convertible note on August 19, 2024.
  • Quarterly Adjusted EBITDA of approximately $25 million.

Cash and cash equivalents were approximately $113 million as of September 30, 2024.

Here is the press release of the DOE loan and 3Q preliminary results from their IR page. https://ir.aerogel.com/news/news-details/2024/Aspen-Aerogels-Inc.-Receives-Conditional-Commitment-for-Proposed-DOE-Loan-and-Provides-Q3-2024-Preliminary-Financial-Results/default.aspx

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Besides the $650M loan they got from the DOE, they’ve just released preliminary Q3 financials. They now expect $117M of revenue which would be 93% YoY sales growth. This beats an earlier estimate of $95M revenue.

Both these news items are propelling the stock higher pre-market.

https://ir.aerogel.com/news/news-details/2024/Aspen-Aerogels-Inc.-Receives-Conditional-Commitment-for-Proposed-DOE-Loan-and-Provides-Q3-2024-Preliminary-Financial-Results/default.aspx

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What is the most recent company forecast for the next 12 months?

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Third quarter growth of 117M would be flat from the previous quarter. This makes their past quarters revenue go from,

61M → 84 → 95 → 118 → 117

Maybe the analysts were expecting something low like 95M, but sequentially that’s not a strong number.

I am also skeptical about a company taking a 650M loan when their market cap is about 2B. The loan is for 1/3rd of the market cap, and I thought the plant was supposed to be partially complete already and just needed to resume construction.

I am not clear why they need 650M to complete the Georgia plant?

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In the near-term, shouldn’t ASPN track GM shipments of Ultium-equipped vehicles, or is it more complicated than that?

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I don’t get it, I keep reading that GM’s EV sales were up 40% quarter over quarter. Aspen’s industrial division is supply constrained. Yet Aspen quarter over quarter revenue will be flat, hummmm.

I tried to find out when Aspen recognizes revenue and from what i can tell its when product is shipped. I am far from an accountant and just an average investor but I sold my Aspen position this morning.

Kindest Regards,
Happyhunting

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Most people don’t have any idea why Buick performs so well in China. Puyi was China’s last emperor. His car was a Buick. It makes no difference that most people in China are unaware that this is the reason that Buicks have such a high level of prestige in China. The brand’s image as being a symbol of high standing in China. One’s image is very important in China,

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ASPN gives FY revenue guidance. In Q4 2023 they guided to 350 million for FY 24 or 47% YoY. In Q1 they raised guidance to 380 million or 59% YoY. Then in Q2 they raised again to 390 million, which implied they’d do something like 90 million in each of the final two quarters of 2024. Instead they just pre-announced 117 million for Q3 or a 30% beat. So we’ll see where they raise guidance to when they announce in a couple of quarters.

Why is it flat QoQ? Not clear cut. ASPN is supply-constrained to some extent, which is why they want to build another plant. Also the part of their business that produces PyroThin is 68% of revenue, not 100%.

from a high level they are beating and raising and expanding margins (and had a positive operating cash flow margin in Q2) , and the market looks large and growing for the next 3-5 years

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ASPN has more than one customer. To date, Aspen has contracts with these other major global OEMs besides GM, including Toyota (Honda), Stellantis (the STLA Medium vehicle platform includes Abarth, Alfa Romeo, Chrysler, Citroën, Dodge, DS Automobiles, Fiat, Jeep, Lancia, Maserati, Opel, Peugeot, Ram, and Vauxhall brands) and VW Group (Volkswagen, ŠKODA, SEAT, CUPRA, Audi, Lamborghini, Bentley, Porsche, and Ducati). In addition, they indicated that they would be announcing a major German OEM soon.

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This article has some good statistics regarding EV adoption trends in the United States.

My takeaway: The states with the lowest EV adoption rates are very slowly catching up to states with the largest EV adoption rates. The biggest things that impact EV adoption rates are the number of public charging stations a state has and legislation like California’s Zero Emission Vehicle legislation, which mandates new vehicles reach 100% zero-emission and clean plug-in hybrid-electric status by the 2035 model year.

To date, 17 states have adopted California’s Zero Emission Policy. The states that have adopted are:

  1. Colorado
  2. Connecticut
  3. Delaware
  4. Maine
  5. Maryland
  6. Massachusetts
  7. Minnesota
  8. Nevada
  9. New Jersey
  10. New Mexico
  11. New York
  12. Oregon
  13. Pennsylvania
  14. Rhode Island
  15. Vermont
  16. Virginia

Article → https://www.autoblog.com/news/the-end-of-gas-cars-ev-adoption-accelerates-across-america

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What percentage of revenue does GM represent?

I thought I read that it was the vast majority. Aehr has other customers as well.

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The 6th post in this thread (from @wsm007) has an Aspen Aerogel slide that shows almost all the thermal barrier revenue is from GM Ultium battery vehicles, which includes all of the Honda vehicles referenced. Thermal barrier revenue is about 75% of the company’s revenue and I’d guess at least 90% is from the Ultium battery packs today.

In the Thermal Barrier business, no customer outside of GM matters today.

How long from announcement to actual battery pack production at scale? And by then, what will happen as GM winds down its Ultium battery business? In the auto business, it can easily be 3 years from “design win” to actual production, which is where Aspen Aerogels starts making money.

There may be a short term opportunity here to ride GM doing more Ultium battery vehicles in the near future. But the long term is quite uncertain in my mind. GM won’t stop Ultium battery production overnight, certainly, but we don’t know if the new battery designs will use PyroThin, or if they do, as much PyroThin as Ultium packs use. And we don’t know if other companies will choose PyroThin, and even if they do, at what volumes they’ll be selling.

We have a baseline of 180K Ultium vehicles for 2024 from the slide in post #6 from Aspen Aerogels. That’s down from their prior estimate of 225k Ultium vehicles, and down despite them showing growth for GM new launches in H2.

So, whose going to use PyroThin that isn’t today, and in what quantities, and on what timeline? That’s what an investment in ASPN boils down to for me.

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Based on the latest earnings call and report for Aspen Aerogels, Inc. (ASPN) for Q2 2024, the revenue breakdown by business segment is as follows:

  • Energy Industrial revenue: $36.9 million

  • EV Thermal Barrier revenue: $80.8 million

So, the thermal barrier revenue is 68.5% of ASPN’s revenue, and the energy industry is 31.5%.

ASPN does not break out the percentage of Thermal Barrier revenue by OEM. The majority is coming from GM, though. This slide from their Q2 Earnings presentation provides the best detail I can find on the split by OEM.

In my mind the Thermal Barrier revenue for the next few years is going to depend on whether GM and other OEM customers continue to ramp to meet regulatory requirements. In 2024 GM definitly ramped faster than other OEMs.

I think ASPN’s Thermal Barrier revenue story is going to come down to whether investors buy into the predictions that ASPN is sharing on this slide.

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