Cause of T2 Diabetes not what was expected

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My apologies, our posts crossed paths. Thanks for answer.

How so? Atkins offers three plans that mostly limits carbs. One is their ketogenic diet that limits daily net carb intake to 20 grams. The second is the more flexible 40 grams of net carbs/day. The third plan is 100 g of net carbs/day for those who mostly want to maintain their weight. As a comparison, the FDA Dietary Guidelines for Americans recommend between about 225-325 g of carbs/day (without specifying net or total).

I don’t think there is much difference between the most extreme Atkins (20g net carbs) and most keto diets.

So what makes the Atkins diet unbalanced?

That’s fine. But then that means that what is “balanced” for one person is “unbalanced” to another. When the meaning of a word becomes so variable, it ceases to be useful.

IMO, what is unbalanced is the FDA Dietary Guidelines for Americans. I think the carb recommendation is too high (even if it refers to total carbs) unless the individual is more physically active than the average American.

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That was not the original Atkins diet. I studied the diet 40 years go. He was boasting have whipped cream with steak every day of the week. There was no limit to the depravity. LOL

At that point it is more specialized to the individual. Balanced unbalanced is too quick a read after the person experiences things with their blood counts.

No one goes by the FDA. It is for a teenager who would be better off with a ton of calories other than MCD.

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Yup. Alcohol consumption is known to increase water retention that can last for a few days.

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Salt.

I like chips. I have cut them out for periods of time.

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If a diet is still popular after 40 years, it is probably an effective diet.

Typo on my part. It should have been the USDA, not FDA.

But why are you so anti-FDA? No offense, but you are very quick to make such insults without having any expertise in the field. It’s kind of strange since the recommendations are pretty much identical to yours as it also promotes a “balanced diet”, but goes further to provide the specifics that you are unable to do. They don’t have the luxury that you do to be wishy-washy.

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That is not what was meant at all. The diet was different 40 years ago. I spelled that out properly.

I am not at all against the FDA. I am a realist that the FDA is not perfect. Besides how could one diet for men be a fit-all diet? Why would you assume there is no thought behind my statements and then charge me with your assumptions? It does not make for friends because you are hen pecking at things instead of reading them. You are reading into them.

The problem with your positions you decide to take the obvious instead of the reality of things underneath the obvious.

The word “balanced” is used and forever after you want to know what a balanced diet is. It is some carbs, some fats, and some proteins. Your blood counts matter more at the end of the day.

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I read his book a few decades ago (Dr. Atkins was my dads cardiologist back then) and as I recall, it wasn’t 3 plans, it was 3 phases. You start at the low level (20g) for 2 weeks to “jump” into ketosis quickly (I think he called it “induction phase” or something like that), then you adjust to somewhere in the middle (near 40g for most people) as you lose the weight, and then once at your desired weight, you adjust to a point at which weight stabilizes (somewhere around 80-100g for most people).

Looked around, but I don’t seem to have the book anymore, must have gotten donated during a cleanup phase over the decades.

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How did your dad do with the diet?

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Well, he was being treated for an MI at the time, not for diet. Having never been overweight in his life (boy am I disappointed that I didn’t get that from him genetically!!!), he didn’t need a diet for weight loss. But later on, he did reduce his carbohydrate intake to about 80g for many years, and his triglycerides number improved dramatically. Dad is still doing fine!

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I am the opposite I need health carbs to control my lipids.

I do not like eating a lot of healthy carbs. I am drawn more naturally to meats. But that changed almost three years ago. I focused on my diet and cooking a lot during the pandemic.

Adding my dad is coming up on 85 and still kicking. He is eating a lot of protein to retain his muscle. His dog is getting some of that protein. LOL

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Choices people make when they have not read about the LC/KETO way of eating properly, not the way of eating itself. Used to subscribe to Diabetes Forecast magazine, which dealt with research in both T1 and T2. Cancelled after reading a book “review” of one of Atkin’s books, where the reviewer started off with something along the lines of: I can’t recommend something that restricts even iceberg lettuce. Indeed the book suggested consuming at least 4C of iceberg in the jump start very low carb part of the diet, realizing that without fiber, constipation follows.

I HATE that people refer to this as a diet, when it is a life long way of eating. Sure, with sufficient carb restriction, one can lose copious amounts of weight, but at some point you ramp up those healthy carbs because you no longer need to lose weight! The way we approach keto/LC is as a low glycemic Mediterranean type way of eating. LOTS of veggies with olive oil, butter and proteins focused on chicken and fish, though I won’t turn up my nose at a wonderful ribeye, which is as good for the soul as the body. Nuts are a mainstay, and we don’t shy away from dairy either.

Going hiking today. Packed a lunch of what we call a “fixins salad,” which is all the normal things one puts in a salad, minus the greens. Celery, red onion, carrots, tomatoes, avocado, red peppers, cucumbers, sun dried tomatoes, capers, parmesan, pepitas, wild caught canned salmon with skin and bones, and Italian dressing for today. Dense, healthy, holds up well, even on a 5 mile hike. Low carb and healthy.

Choices matter. Your health is up to you. No pill, no WW or Noom is going to do it for you. They are just tools that still require YOUR effort. The imbalances of “diets” are do to those following them.

IP

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LOL. Time to update your knowledge base rather than spout ancient history. Atkins was a marketing machine. I hated his books and they were not on my rec list.

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Worked for Mark’s dad. I am happy for that.

The diet offered as Atkins was different than what I read. Mark agreed it was. There were not three diets in the book. There were three phases. Admittedly I had forgotten that part.

I was not the one spouting ancient history so can it. Someone else asked about it and then misstated it.

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This isn’t personal. Throughout this thread you’ve expressed strong disagreements with posters, often presented in such an insulting way that people openly wished they could put you on ignore. It appeared like you had beliefs about what a healthy diet should be that was at odds with most folks here.

I wanted to know what this mystery diet was, which seems reasonable to me.

Turns out to be a nothing-burger (which admittedly would be the ultimate weight-loss entree). You advocate a healthy balanced diet that you define as containing unspecified levels of carbs, protein, and fat. And the only popular diet of the many out there that you thought was “imbalanced” was the 40 year old version of the Atkins.

I understand that you are among a small minority who respond to low-carb diets with higher lipid levels. However, the great majority of Americans would benefit by significantly reducing their carb intake. That’s because carbs are the primary determinant of blood glucose levels. High blood glucose leads to high insulin levels, which if high for prolonged periods increases the probability of insulin resistance.

Reducing carbs is the fastest way to reduce the incidence of blood glucose spikes. Reduce carbs enough and the body shifts to metabolizing fats for energy (broadly known as ketosis). For most people this is a good thing. For a small minority it raises blood lipids to unhealthy levels.

The danger arises if one reduces carbs too much. Then protein gets used to maintain blood glucose levels. That’s considered bad because it probably means some muscle loss.

IMO, the dietary goals should be to reduce the incidences of high blood glucose by generally reducing carb intake. Periodically go into ketosis by a combination of intermittent fasting and exercise while eating enough protein to avoid muscle loss (and hopefully get muscle gain). And try to eat foods that reduce chronic inflammation and/or improve the gut microbiome.

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Well, for me, I find it easier to just regular ignore.

I used TMF’s ignore feature once (without the apparently obligatory announcement). Just once on a poster I’ve already mentioned somewhere. The once was prompted by a series of posts on such twaddle and tomfoolery (I think there must’ve been a special page kept for just such purposes) that my head was spinning. What a mistake. As I mentioned this was a very prolific poster and when I got up the next day and fired up TMF, there was a whole page all greyed out. And the page before. First thought was my computer was bunnoxed but finally tracked it down to the ignore feature. I don’t know what I expected but, along with this inconvenience, as a n00b to such activities, I found that the greyed out status gave the greyling’s posts a veneer of mystery that made me wonder if this time, said poster had made a meaningful comment. I deactivated the ignore feature and went back to regular ignore-ance. Much less trouble.

Besides, seeing reactions, beliefs, justification for said beliefs gives me a useful guide to assess opinions on those topics I might be interested in but don’t know enough to know whether I really would be. Or, where I might believe stuff I know…that just ain’t so.

It’s International Skeptic’s Day today. Allegedly (I haven’t checked yet🤣)

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I’ve been here since the mid-90s and never put anyone on ignore. First of all, I don’t ignore people, I only ignore content. Second of all, I hope I am mature enough to simply pass by posts that I have nothing to add. And I certainly hope I can pass by posts that are purposely incendiary trolling. In the 80s, I was on the usenet groups, and I was younger, and sometimes got into that mode of “someone is wrong on the internet, I have to correct them”, but learned to fight that tendency.

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I have a vague memory, perhaps from a nightmare I had in the 80’s, that one of the circles of Dante’s Inferno was so horrific that he could not bear responsibility for prematurely disturbing the Renaisance Dream with coming horrors, and so with Virgil’s support he deleted it from his manuscript:

“Qualcuno si sbaglia su internet, devo correggerlo”.

Better off to be up to your nose in firey shyte.

david fb

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I still respond poorly to posts that I perceive to be arrogant and dismissive. I always wake up embarrassed the next morning because I know that the poor response was my choice.

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You have made it personal at every turn. You need to write very differently not to offend people. You are condescending when you do not know the topic.

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@MarkR et al,

It is interesting that the least knowledgeable person in this conversation needs to ignore someone who knows much more about the topic.

It is really laughable. Then he says it is not personal.

Oh and I am the person he won’t ever ignore. He responses endlessly with poorer information.

@iampops5 I am considerate about many things as well. Life should not be a one-way street. I do not threaten to ignore people. I take what I want and leave the rest peaceably. I also let things go rather quickly. It is not just one person who is slighted by things online. People have a freedom. They have a right to that freedom. It is a safe zone in some ways to say things. That is a blessing most of the world does not have.