As I said in an earlier post, there are no good cost estimates for large dams like Grand Coulee Dam. Even to come up with a new estimate would require site selection (big problem), environmental report (big problem), public support (big problem), conceptual design, and then a cost estimate can be started. But the only entity with the money and resources to do such and estimate is the government with the help of contractors like Bechtel.
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Hydro actually needs to shrink, because we overbuilt dams in our enthusiasm during the last century. There are lots of smaller dams that produce small power benefit but at great cost/injury to fisheries, property rights, and natural locations that have higher uses
Meanwhile we need to build a lot more catchment/settling basins to capture water and put it back into acquifers.
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Re: Hydro projects
The Mississippi River has lots of dams but only one hydro project. We have potential for dozens more hydro projects. Not to mention projects on the Ohio and Missouri Rivers.
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Weāve been discussing the classic large dam hydroelectric projects. Your reference is to retrofitting existing dam and locks sites for hydro. That may or may not be feasible; one of the issues is that many of these sites, designed to allow for river transport, are in desparate need of repair. The U.S. has done a miserable job of maintaining its infrastructure for decades now. But retrofitting existing select Mississippi River and Ohio River dam and lock sites for small hydro projects may be technically possible.
The Missouri River already has 6 massive mainstem dams, many smaller private hydro dams upriver and lots on tributaries. The large dams had major impacts at the time- likely unacceptable in the modern-day. But the problem of siting still exists; the best sites have been built upon already. And the existing dams are aging while confronting the disruptions of climate change. Weāll be lucky if our political system can manage the challenge of keeping what we already have in working order.
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This has already been examined (generating power from the Mississippi River) in MN. There are locks and dams in place now. Ford built its own dam to power the Ford plant next to it. It was sold when Ford closed the plant is still generating power. Other locations upriver were researched for a couple of different plans. The basic idea was to build an in-or under-river turbine and drive the turbine by having the river run through it. Havenāt seen anything about them in a number of years, so I suspect they were āno goā.
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Thanks. The locks on the upper Mississippi mean the dams are already there. Adapting for hydro should not be a big deal. You do not have the flooding problem from new dams.
Its great to hear people have looked into such projects. I hope they get more attention. Nothing is inexpensive these days but this is green energy that can be captured.
I know little about the topic, but the Mississippi has plenty of flow and is wide enough at most points to accommodate some āin riverā type turbines (at least I would think). It isnāt deep at some points, hence the ongoing need for dredging, but thereās energy in all that flow, and if you could harness it without completely damming up parts of it it would seem to be a big win.
Clearly there is some reason itās not being done, but Iād be curious if anyone has read about it.
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The big take away Offshore Wind is expensive.
Low water during hot periods and high water/floods usually during spring (big runoffs after a high snowpack some years AND excess rainfall).
A couple of reasons. First, jerryab2ās observation about the variability of flows is correct; that variability is getting worse and complicates the case. Second, the cost and time needed (studies included) to develop such sites is significant, and the MWs are modest. So the cost-benefit analysis often isnāt in favor of such projects. Of course, this has been true of large dam projects too; thatās why the Federal Government has been the builder of large dams in the past.
Low-head hydropower may be the most promising approach, but that has the same cost-benefit problems with modest MW production.
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As far as I know the only hydro project on the Mississippi is Amerenās Keokuk dam, built 1913 shortly after completion of the Niagara Falls hydro project.
https://www.ameren.com/missouri/company/environment-and-sustainability/hydroelectric/keokuk
Its interesting that most of the navigation locks on the Tennessee River were built as hydro projects for Tennessee Valley Authority. I posted a book review on TVA a while ago. It began as a hydro project at Muscle Sholes AL to make nitrates for World War I. After the war, Congress spent a decade deciding what to do with the plant before finally deciding to do TVA to stimulate economic development of the area.
The idea of govt producing electricity in competition with private industry was controversial. Somehow this was not considered for the Mississippi. But of course Boulder Dam, Grand Coulee Dam, and dams on the Columbia river seem to have overcome the controversy. Some were built to provide work during the Great Depression.
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On the upper Mississippi River, topography is one of the greatest obstacles. Elevation differences within and between adjacent UMR pools have generally been considered to be insufficient to support commercial-scale hydropower facilities. The exception is at Lock and Dam 19 at Keokuk (134 MW generating capacity). Additionally, there is a hydroelectric power plant located at Lock and Dam 2 in Hastings, MN, though it generates only ~4,400 kW. Remember that the classic reservoir- based hydropower system also requires enormous swaths of land confiscation for the pool. That is extremely unlikely to be acceptable along the Mississippi River.
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All the dams I worked with are in the west. Not a lot of water. They will spill if necessary of course, but they hate doing it.
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Thatās because the outlets are a 900 ft. At around 950 the turbines probably start cavitating. 900 is as low as it can get and still let water out. Below that - itās a (more) stagnant pond.
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It should be noted that the 950 ft number is above sea level. The base of the dam (I think) is about 895 ft above sea level. So the water level is about 55 ft or lower when they shut down the turbines.
The whole dam is only about 725 ft high in total.
Mike
Yes, I am talking about what is sometimes called ārun of riverā production, done without dams or storage. The Mississippi has enormous volumes of water flowing, and is surely wide enough at many points to accommodate a separated āsluiceā channel to run generators. Even if the production is modest, itās going to be more than zero, no?
The Mississippi (and Missouri and others) have many miles of shoreline which is undeveloped, and where (I would think) it would be relatively easy to put generation facilities without interfering with navigation or already established business. Yes, some land would have to be appropriated from farmers, probably, but otherwiseā¦
The Mississippi made the USA rich by allowing/empowering instant cheap water borne transport for almost the entire middle 1/3 of USA territory, and with good connections to most of the East Coast with the completion of the Eire and B&O canals. It could do that because it was, for a huge powerful continental river system, relatively FLAT and useless for big hydro.
No surprise that the very first USA-wide wildly popular song (after maybe yankee doodle) was The Boatman, a wild rowdy thing, with melodic roots in the lives of African American oystermen on the 18th Century Chesepeake Bay. However, after the Revolutionary War gained the Northwest Territories this song migrated onto the Ohio River and glorified the boatmen there and on the Mississippi (and after Jefferson bought New Orleans all the way on down that river and up its tributaries).
Aaron Copland later castrated the song, turning it into a very pretty staple of young aspiring singers dominating google searches, but you can still find some of the rowdier stuff if you look hard in dark corners. My favorite of all time was done by an ancient crone in a Louisville Bar I once got happily drunk in, but this version is OK:
Dance Boatman Dance
Dance I say
Dance Boatman Dance
Dance all night with a hole in your pants
Boatman dance, boatman sing
Boatman do 'bout anything
When the boatman come to town
Look out boys your daughters gone
Dance Boatman Dance
Dance I say
Dance Boatman Dance
Dance all night with a hole in your pants
Lead
Pass the whiskey 'round,
Pass it āround I say
Pass the big olā jug around
Well finish off by the break of day
Boatman dance, boatman sing
Boatman do 'bout anything
When the boatman come to town
Look out boys your daughters gone
Dance Boatman Dance
Dance I say
Dance Boatman Dance
Dance all night with a hole in your pants
Lead
Pass the big olā mug 'round,
Pass it āround I say
Pass the big olā mug around
Well be all south by the break of day
Boatman dance, boatman sing
Boatman do 'bout anything
When the boatman come to town
Look out boys your daughters gone
Dance Boatman Dance
Dance I say
Dance Boatman Dance
Dance all night with a hole in your pants
Lead
Grab yer partner by the hand
and grab her now I say
grab yer partner by the hand
Gonna spin gonna freak 'til the break of day
Boatman dance, boatman sing
Boatman do 'bout anything
When the boatman come to town
Look out boys your daughters gone
Dance Boatman Dance
Dance I say
Dance Boatman Dance
Dance all night with a hole in your pants
Lead
Dance Boatman Dance
Dance I say
Dance Boatman Dance
Dance all night with a hole in your pants
Boatman dance, boatman sing
Boatman do 'bout anything
When the boatman come to town
Look out boys your daughters gone
Dance Boatman Dance
Dance I say
Dance Boatman Dance
Dance all night with a hole in your pants
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Lots of things are called run of river, such as the giant Chief Joseph power plant (pict from Wikipedia). Left side is river flow, right side has generators with a small height difference. If the river flow stops you get no power. But this also blocks boat traffic unless you provide locks.
And then there is this
And then there is thisā¦a floating generator
Mike
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But railroads put the steamboats out of business. They could not compete especially on the upper Mississippi. Barges did not start until World War I when railroads could not handle all the traffic for the war. Barges and towboats are a recent development.