China Economy Counterpoint

accounted for 25-30% of GDP most of the last 2 decades, went through a painful bust. Household wealth, much of it in properties, declined. Unemployment went up, especially for the fresh college graduates.

Another wave of books and theories about “China Collapse” have found eager audiences in the western media and economic circles.

the economic reality in China –

– GDP contribution of the property industry was a negative 2% in 2024, meaning the rest of the Chinese economy grew 7% to achieve a 5% overall growth.

– Total contribution of the property industry to Chinese GDP has fallen below 20% from a high of 25-30% a few years ago. This is a much-needed rebalancing as more capital and resources are now redirected to other productive industries such as green energy and high tech,

– Housing prices have fallen between 30 to 40% in most Chinese cities in the past 5 years. This has a massive downward wealth effect for property owners, pressuring consumer spending. But housing has become much more affordable for urban households. Housing sales and rental prices have both declined.

– Few Chinese households have got into financial crisis from falling housing prices as average mortgage borrowing is less than 50% of total housing price. There is a much higher level of downpayment in China than elsewhere (typically 70-80% borrowing).

– Housing sales and prices have started to stabilize in the second half of 2024. The government is planning to buy out the surplus supply and turn them into low-price affordable housing units.

There is little to no consumer inflation in China in the last 5 years, in sharp contrast with most other countries, especially the west.

– Annual household income growth for the past 5 years was 6.5%. Now a greater proportion of GDP is going to household income, giving China one of the highest income-to-GDP ratio globally. Urban retirement income has been raised 3 to 5% annually in the last decade, far outpacing CPI which is less than 2%.

– While luxury consumption has declined, affecting businesses such as LVMH, middle class spending has not slowed down.

– Discretionary consumer spending has bounced back to pre-Covid level, with travel expenditure, education and entertainment spending on double digit growth.

– Apart from consumer spending, Chinese global trade reached a record of $6 trillion in 2024, with an unheard-of $1 trillion surplus. China is now leading the global auto industry, photovoltaic industry, solar/wind/hydro/nuclear power industry, robotics, etc.

China has increased its share in global semiconductor industry. China has even made inroad in the commercial aviation industry with COMAC taking a bigger share of narrow-body passenger aircraft market.

In fact, I challenge anyone to name a single manufacturing industry where China has not become more competitive, moved up the value chain, and gained global market share.

For the average Chinese, the slower GDP growth has translated into 1) lower housing cost; 2) little inflation; 3) no impact on real income growth. I doubt many are feeling gloom and doom.

On the other hand, the “high” GDP growth in the US has not benefited the average Joe-six-pack who must deal with higher housing prices and rents, high inflation across a full spectrum of products and services, including big-item spendings in cars, student loans and healthcare.

I have no way of confirming the most of China economy counterpoints.
China consumption growth is based on Chinese government figures. True or false?
McKinsey seems to buy the figures:

And the above report suggests the number of foreign companies exiting has been overstated in Western media.

China has zero inflation, perhaps even deflation.Yet consumer consumption is supposedly on the rise.
Exports to USA has taken a big hit. But overall China exports is on the rise.

Is the US economic war upon China a failure?
Has the Western media reports upon the fall of the Chinese economy biased in some measure; pushing the resident government propaganda agenda?

Of course demographics ultimately wins out. Ethnic China, Germany, Italy, & Japan are all headed toward the boneyard; but it takes time. Those economies eventually will need massive numbers of immigrants to keep their economies going.
According to the UN
https://worldmigrationreport.iom.int/msite/wmr-2024-interactive/
Germany’s population is 18.8% immigrants
Italy’s population is 10.6% immigrants
Japan’s population is 2.2% immigrants
China’s population is .1% immigrants

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Thank you. A very good counter point to the doom I have been hearing.

Cheers
Qazulight

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Small parcels under $800 still have tariff.

China’s surplus with us is allowing them 5% growth.

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Reporting on China over the last decade, across the different points of view from “impending collapse” (Zeihan and company) to “next dominant world power,” is horrifically under-researched, faddish, and misleading.

I always look for researchers, reporters, and analysts who can actually read and speak Mandarin (the language of power and governance) and hopefully also Cantonese or one of the other major regional languages.

I see the crux issue as the ongoing compounding of corruption at all levels mixed badly with central planned grandiosity, local incompetence and corruption, and the ongoing incurrence of unrepayable and largely hidden or grossly under reported debt, especially in rural local economies. Debt may not show up in the accounts, but if it exists it will bite hard and nasty.

Obviously, the demographics are grim, and a lot of the gee whiz stuff (huge magnificent railroad viaducts) is extremely ill considered and managed investment.

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Depends on what time frame you are talking about.

China bears (like me) believe that China’s economic growth for the last 15 years or so was based primarily on a huge amount of government investment that Xi determined about five years ago wasn’t sustainable.

The result of that realization was a tightening of China lending and the crash of the property market comparable to the Great Recession of 2008. When stuff like that happens in the US there are bankruptcies, a lot of pain and suffering, but all the bad loans and investments get flushed out. Government won’t let that happen in China so the problems still fester. The bad loans still exist. The banks and businesses that should have gone under are still hanging on. Chinese homeowners still owe a ton of money on loans for property worth much less than the buying price. No wonder Chinese are not buying stuff.

Meanwhile Chinese manufacturing costs are rising. It is no longer the low cost manufacturer. That has shifted to places like Vietnam and Mexico. This means manufacturing is leaving China.

If you look over the last five years, China manufacturing is declining relative to the rest of the world. Why Chinese Manufacturing Is Faltering - TACNA

China steel production is in a multiyear decline. China's 2024 crude steel output slips to five-year low on feeble property demand | Reuters.

And China’s agriculture is in trouble, suggesting it will have to spend a lot of money finding ways to improve food production or import food. China’s Farmland Is Shrinking Despite Xi Jinping’s Commands

And of course it is aging faster than any other major economy.

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Yes!

People think of bankruptcies as bad, but forget that the creation of the legal process of bankruptcy was one of the greatest and most useful in the history of capitalism. Xi’s China is ideologically trapped, unable to make full use of bankruptcy because in scientific socialism it never happens, and when it does happen the reaction is like that of a man who has wet his pants — walking very awkwardly and bizarrely attempting to hide what cannot be readily hidden.

While we are on the subject, the Chinese approach to infrastructure is a mix of brilliant and idiotic. The failure to plan water control in depth has led to a dangerously haphazard approach, e.g., vastly overspending for some prestige dams but utterly blowing it by leaving the extension and maintenance of crucial levees to pathetically weak, poor, and too often corrupt local governments.

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Thing is, bankruptcy in Shiny-land is no longer failure. It’s a business strategy: bleed all the loot out of the company, for yourself, then dump the hollowed out company into BK, so that all the other stake holders take the losses.

Steve

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The definition of shiny land might be a society that takes every excellent innovation of innovative wide open capitalism and finds a way to make it serve no one but the rich. For the middle and below bankruptcy is a disaster with no ready recovery (credit ratings etc) while for the rich it is a prime tool to extract the last penny from a scam.

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“shiny land” with no space between the words is now forbidden on this. board……

Really?

“shiny land” with no space between the words is now forbidden on this. board……

Really?

Yup. I noticed that shortly after the transition to the new boards.

Steve

Only amongst hoi polloi.
The JCs that pushed for more sub prime loans and placing those loans in (Collateralized Debt Obligations)/MBSs(mortgage-backed security)CDS(credit default swaps) which had high ratings as bribes were paid by JCs to the rating bureaus skipped away penalty free.

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Financial failure anywhere is financial failure. The rules of gravity apply.

Financial failure in aggregate can become an economic downturn.

It isn’t failure. It is a business plan. Example: Red Lobster restaurants. Apparently, what the “JCs” did was to sell all the restaurants, then lease them back. The proceeds of the sales were sucked out of the company by the “JCs”. Meanwhile, the lease expense drove the restaurants into bankruptcy.

Steve

At the end of the day they failed, bankrupt.

At the end of the day they failed, bankrupt.

There was a phrase we learned in b-school “set up to fail”. iirc, in criminal law it is known as “fraud by conversion”.

Steve

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