Congestion Pricing: $23 toll if you want to drive a car into Manhattan

People from New Jersey are not amused.

intercst

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It’s fake news. From all the posts I have read everyone is leaving New York and they no longer have any traffic jams> :nerd_face:

Andy

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I know NYC has excellent public transportation ON the island. How about on/off the island? Do good options exist for those people trying to drive cars?

Visited Manhattan once for a few days. Never rented a car. Not a need. But we had to take a taxi to/from the airport because it appears there were no subway or bus lines to do so.

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Yep, it costs you $23 to go to Manhattan. But it’s free to go to New Jersey.

Makes $23 seem like a bargain. :grin:

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What Record Office Vacancies Mean for New York City’s Economy

https://www.removepaywall.com/article/current
The amount of office space available for lease in Manhattan climbed to a record high during the first four months of 2023… The group said that the total square footage of office space in Manhattan available for lease — roughly 94 million — has set a record. The vacancy rate of 17.4 percent, however, matched the rate from February 2022, which was the highest since Colliers started tracking the New York City office market in 2000…The vacancy rate has grown more than 70 percent since the start of the pandemic. Nationwide, the vacancy rate is about 20 percent…

The current commercial real estate downturn shares similarities with previous declines, including in the early 1990s, after the Sept. 11 attacks and during the 2008 financial crisis. But this current drop has a new twist: The lower demand for office space appears permanent, analysts say. This is terrible news for the city…

DB2

People put up with a high cost of living in certain areas, like NYC, San Francisco, Silicon Valley, because of things like available jobs, climate, recreation. I have a LOT of co-workers who live in Silicon Valley precisely because of the available jobs, the compensation, and the weather and outdoor activities. Something that Austin, frankly, can’t deliver on. And our cost of living is getting high to boot.

But what happens if you don’t need to live there in order to have that job selection that Silicon Valley or NYC offers you? We’re seeing that play out right before our very eyes.

LOL I knew I could count on you Bob.

Andy

Yep just think how many cheaper engineers and software programmers you can get all around the world. I think those Silicon Valley workers are going to wish they were in the office. Because if you do not have your hands on the product your job is going to go to the cheapest labor.

Andy

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So why is it funny? Even if it isn’t permanent (the new normal we discussed here back in 2020) a protracted downturn for Manhattan is bad news for the businesses there. Of course, that may mean less traffic and congestion, so there is that…

DB2

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I am not sure, but based on my experience living in NYC a few decades ago, it’ll (the $23 entry fee) only be painful to a relatively small number of people. First off, the very well-off that live in the zone are exempt (I think). Second of all, the very wealthy don’t care about $23 extra a day for their own convenience. Even the well-off commuters don’t drive into the city daily for work, not so much because they don’t want to, but rather because it robs them of hours a day. So they take public transportation. And when a business is paying for the ride, well, you take a car today and it costs $175, so now it’ll costs $198 instead, not such a big deal when someone else is paying (in a law firm, the client, etc).

The people that will be most affected by this are normal regular working people that need to get into the city for something important and can’t easily take the subway. For example, when my dad had cancer, he had to be in the city weekly for treatment and chemotherapy, and public transit just wouldn’t work. As it is, parking cost a small fortune, now it’s another $23 added for each day of treatment. Nice.

Also, this being NYC, a whole cottage industry of cars registered in the zone willing to bring people in and out for a small fee will probably crop up shortly after it comes into effect. Unlicensed car services in effect. They’ve already existed for decades.

I also have to wonder if it might not increase traffic at some points of the day. Because once you drive across the pay barrier, you’ve already paid for the day, so it’s worth making multiple trips in that same day back and forth. Think a car service type of thing, between Queens and Manhattan, between Brooklyn and Manhattan. The additional cost of the first trip is $23, but the marginal additional cost of each trip thereafter is zero. I can just see car services working it out - 5 guys with cars, one takes Monday through the barrier, two takes Tuesday, etc, and five takes Friday. The other 4 do only Brooklyn/Queens and airport runs outside of Manhattan those days.

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Congestion pricing has been a thing in London for several years.

Clear the road for the “JCs”, whose fee is probably paid by the company, by pushing the Proles underground.

Steve

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I always laugh at the guy on the corner telling me the world is ending.

Andy

Yeah, the New York Times has been know to hit the catastrophe button from time to time.

DB2

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I don’t recall you laughing at that girl (Greta something?) that appeared at the UN. Or at Al Gore. Or at many of the other professional catastrophists.

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I think your memory is failing Mark. LOL

Andy

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Y’all have to tell that my nephew who moved to Manhattan to be with his other MIT friends.

You know the guys who can do anything.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Probably not as far as NYC goes. Yes as far as San Fran goes.

I run an ad on IG to wealthy people in tech, VC. The NYC market has far more people in that category than San Diego, Los Angles, San Fran and San Jose combined. The ratio is 2:1 NYC against CA. Los Angles is doing the best of any city in VC in CA.

Rational free market analysis screams that free use of an automobile on a public street suffering congestion is wasteful. Imposing a fee (ideally varying with the degree of congestion existing or readily anticipated) is necessary to optimize use of a scarce resource.

david fb

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Back some ten years ago 6000 people visited the MoMA every day. Wonder if that will see a dent. The MoMA depends more on tourism.

Odd story a family friend my age now out of North Carolina was in the MoMA ten years ago on a Sunday at the same time I was there. I talk often to her dad he told me. She is into NC politics and had just gotten her city’s museum remodeled if you will. We had a nice chat about all of it.

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It’s possible. I’m getting old! :joy:

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To tell you the truth Mark I have never read anything by either of them or paid any attention to them except when Gore was running for political office.

Andy