EV

[captainccs]

This bit of misinformation is currently being circulated by pro-Putin disinformation bots. Not suggesting you are one of those, just that you are blindly repeating and amplifying anti-American misinformation.

Putin is an easy whipping boy but not necessarily the main disinformation center. There are lots of interests being disrupted by EVs, not just fossil fuels. I doubt Exxon is in bed with Putin or the French insurance giant Axa S.A. that published an idiotic fake crash EV crash test with fireworks and all. Axa might be reacting to Tesla’s insurance initiative that invades their territory.

The story…

Axa S.A. (styled as AXA) is a French multinational insurance company. The head office is in the 8th arrondissement of Paris, France. It also provides investment management and other financial services.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axa

Watch Fake Tesla Battery Fire Performed By An Insurance Company

An insurance company staged a Tesla crash and battery fire, but it was pyrotechnics. The battery pack had been removed for safety.
https://insideevs.com/news/607542/fake-tesla-fire-insurance-…

AXA unit makes apology on back of Tesla crash test controversy
https://www.insurancebusinessmag.com/us/news/commercial-auto…

---

People get upset by these antics. I take the opposite long term view even if I find these antics disgusting. To me they are proof that EVs are a winner, it’s the losers hosting these antics. My portfolio could care less whether Putin exists or not, whether he is an SOB or not, Putin is just more bit of market noise. I wouldn’t mind if he were car bombed out of a seventh story hospital window.

The Captain

[telegraph]

Jaa:“Thus EVs reduce CO2 emissions better than ICE, and EVs cost less for fuel and maintenance than ICE.”

That is until the battery dies at 12-13 years , costs you %25000 or $30,000 to replace. Or you junk your EV after that as it isn’t worth replacing the battery.

Meanwhile, you’re ICE with 100,000 or 150,000 miles is doing well, and if you need to rebuilt or replace the engine, likely $3000 to $5000 after 200K miles or more.

The average age of cars on the road now is over 12 years.

Worse, a good portion of the pollution caused by EV battery manufacture will once again hit those 12 year old EVs as they need brand new batteries…ruining much of the ‘CO2 savings’.

the average age of cars on the road likely to plummet to 6 or 7 with EVs.

t

[Spiffy99]

Here’s an email I just received from Southern California Edison:

This Labor Day weekend, help maintain power for everyone. With excessive heat in the forecast across much of the state and the Western U.S. expected to continue into next week, your energy conservation is needed, especially Sunday, Sept. 4 through Tuesday, Sept. 6 from 4 p.m. to 9 p.m. Energy conservation helps reduce strain on the electrical grid.

Easy ways to conserve power include adjusting your air conditioner to at least 78°F and turning off appliances when they’re not being used.

Here are additional ways you can prepare:

• Pre-cool your home by lowering your air conditioning thermostats before 4 p.m.
  - Charge electric vehicles before 4 p.m. or after 9 p.m. (Bolding is mine)
• Charge mobile devices and laptops before 4 p.m.
• Run your dishwasher, washing machine, and other major appliances before 4 p.m. or after 9 p.m.
• Set your pool pump to run in the early morning or late at night.

To assist you, we’ve included some home energy conservation tips below, and a list of resources to help you.

Home Energy Conservation Tips:

• Set your air conditioner to 78°F or higher.
• Turn off unused appliances and equipment.
• Use electric fans instead of air conditioning, when practical.
• Minimize lighting use, where possible.
• Close drapes and blinds to keep out direct sunlight during high-temperature times of day.
• Avoid using evaporative coolers or humidifiers when the air conditioner is running.
• Limit opening and reopening refrigerators – they’re major electricity users in many homes.
• If you are a Net Energy Metering (NEM) solar or battery storage customer, when you conserve energy, the extra electricity goes back to the grid to help your neighbors and reduces the likelihood of CAISO calling for rotating power outages.

[telegraph]

Going to be interesting in CA if Tesla and others put 1,000 or 10,000 EV tractor trailer combos on the road, and they aren’t going to worry about ‘when’ to charge up. When they are a low on juice, those giant battery packs will gobble megawatts of charge power - each - every 200-300 miles of long haul.

those batteries are 5 to 10 times the size of an auto battery that takes 265KW to fast charge. So they might take 2.6 MEGAWATTS each to fast charge. Times 200 or 300 hundred at the same time? or more?

and of course, they might run 24/7 with two drivers - and their is no solar power at night.

Going to be an interesting experiment in CA.

CA grid is 46 GW. TX grid is now about 80 GW capacity. CA ‘borrows’ lots of power from OR and WA every day - until a heat wave /drought affects them too and no spare juice to loan.

interesting times.

Despite ‘conservation’ in TX, grid demand ramps up a GW a year. More ‘migrants’ by the millions needing living space and power. More folks moving here. Plans for GWs more but barely keeping up.

CA will face similar challenges with all the ‘green’ initiatives. Millions more EVs. Soon 100,000s of thousands of trucks and buses.

t

[Neuromancer]

Don’t most states/power companies put out similar type notices?

I know that in Texas such reminders are common - both busy summer periods and even in winter (for different reasons…).

Here in North Carolina, there are similar notices in our power bills.

Basically, just good advice (and likely saves money).

[texirish]

The reason for routine time-of-use billing isn’t actually about peak demand… its because renewables like solar and wind aren’t as available so they have to increase the output from the fossil fuel power plants to handle loads above a nuclear/hydro baseline.

Basically time-of-use billing is to encourage electricity usage in off-peak hours to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and smog-producing emissions.

Does this mean that EV’s in California are primarily powered by fossil fuels and nuclear?

Wouldn’t that be ironic?

[Spiffy99]

Don’t most states/power companies put out similar type notices?
…
Basically, just good advice (and likely saves money).

Yup. The headlines were “California tells EV owners to stop charging their cars!!!” when in reality it was just the normal good advice.

Spiffy

[Spiffy99]

Does this mean that EV’s in California are primarily powered by fossil fuels and nuclear?

No, it means that more fossil fuels are used to generate grid electricity between 4PM-9PM.

[captainccs]

Wouldn’t that be ironic?

Not really. It shows the lag between supply and demand of clean energy. Because of that lag companies like Enphase (ENPH) make good growth investments.

The Captain
Long ENPH
Semi-log all data chart: https://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/advchart/frames/frames.asp…

[jaagu]

Does this mean that EV’s in California are primarily powered by fossil fuels and nuclear?

==========================================

If you want to see the Demand and Supply of electricity live, then here are the links to the California grid operator. You will see the peak Demand between 4pm and 9pm. You will also see the source of the electricity Supplied.

https://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/default.aspx#secti…

https://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.html

Nuclear is small compared to renewables.

Jaak

[jaagu]

Despite ‘conservation’ in TX, grid demand ramps up a GW a year. More ‘migrants’ by the millions needing living space and power. More folks moving here. Plans for GWs more but barely keeping up.

===========================

Despicable TX is shipping “migrants” to other states.

[syke6]

That is until the battery dies at 12-13 years , costs you %25000 or $30,000 to replace. Or you junk your EV after that as it isn’t worth replacing the battery.

Meanwhile, you’re ICE with 100,000 or 150,000 miles is doing well, and if you need to rebuilt or replace the engine, likely $3000 to $5000 after 200K miles or more.

Is that what the bots are saying on the “I Love Putin!” reddit?

I have an EV is about 10 years old. I bought my EV used for about $8000 in Jan 2017. Today, the same model year and same trim costs over $11,000. According to you, there are only couple years left in the useful life. Yet the price is going up. How can that be? The reason is after 10 years there is still plenty of useful life left. I’ve experienced less than 10% degradation.

Real word data–the real world is important to a lot us–shows that Tesla battery degradation is less than 10% after 160,000 miles.

https://electrek.co/2018/04/14/tesla-battery-degradation-dat…

So your formerly 200 mile range car is now 180. Boo hoo. But you don’t need to scrap that car like you claim. And once you get above about 100-120K with an ICE, engine and drivetrain start to wear out or break which translates to higher maintenance costs. EV are much simpler, and therefore more reliable.

Don’t buy one if you don’t want one, but I recommend basing your decision on some of observed reality instead of pro-Putin propaganda.

[DrBob2]

Despicable TX is shipping “migrants” to other states.

Only to sanctuary cities.

DB2

[mschmit]

That is until the battery dies at 12-13 years , costs you %25000 or $30,000 to replace. Or you junk your EV after that as it isn’t worth replacing the battery.

Meanwhile, you’re ICE with 100,000 or 150,000 miles is doing well, and if you need to rebuilt or replace the engine, likely $3000 to $5000 after 200K miles or more.

Of course, as usual, you are just making up this information to use as your argument against EVs.

But, just for fun, let’s assume that you are correct and an EV battery needs to be replaced at 12-13 years.

Using this model, (GREET) Reuters found that, in the United States, a new 54-kilowatt-hour Tesla Model 3 must be driven 13,500 miles before it becomes cleaner than a Toyota Corolla achieving an average 33 mpg over its lifetime. However, if the same Tesla were driven in Norway, it emissions “break-even point” would come at just 8,400 miles, according to the analysis.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1132821_green-payback-h…

So, there we have it. Even if you had to replace an EV battery at 12 years (probably 100K - 150K miles) it would be far superior.

But let’s “fact check” your 12-13 years to EOL.

"The battery will outlive the car,” says Graeme Cooper confidently. “Today, most EV batteries have a life expectancy of 15 to 20 years within the car – and a second life beyond.”

It’s also worth noting that EV battery technology is still evolving, so as tech develops we expect batteries’ lifespan to increase – as well as becoming cheaper, smaller and even lighter.

“An EV battery has a second life after 100,000 to 200,000+ miles on the road,” explains Graeme.

source: https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero-sto…

Second fact check.
Bad cells in a battery can be replaced in a refurbished battery so you don’t have to replace the entire battery.

Third fact check.
Batteries often just degrade over time, providing less range. A 15 year old EV with an initial range of 250 miles, might just have a range of 150 or 200 miles and could be a good car for someone who can’t afford a new car and only needs 50 miles of range everyday.

Fourth fact check.
Tesla car batteries are said to be designed to last 300,000-500,000 miles (as purported by Tesla CEO Elon Musk), or about 21-35 years, based on the average amount of miles driven by Americans in one year, which is typically around 14,263. Keep in mind, that number can fluctuate based on mileage range, among other things.

Rumor has it that Tesla is working on developing a battery that can last a million miles. However, currently-available batteries are not yet capable of lasting a million miles and might need a battery replacement during the lifetime of the car.

source: https://www.solarreviews.com/blog/how-long-do-tesla-batterie…

Mike

[JLC]

Enjoy your ICE.

I will, thank you very much.

Just the other day made a 200 mile round trip to a nursery to pick up a load supplies. Took little more than 3 hours. If driving an EV, would have taken 4 stops to recharge and without fast chargers this becomes a 2 day trip. All day at minimum with fast charges. Doubt the math, just look at the Ford Lightning and its lack of towing capacity. Maybe a 60 mile range.

And before you get bent out of shape about driving so far for plants, etc., the absence of taxes (farm direct doesn’t charge sales tax) more than paid for the gas. Price difference compared to local big box is a nice night on the town.

…the alternative is to send thousands of young Americans to die in the Middle East at the cost of trillions of dollars and supporting unsavory dictators like Putin.

No, the alternative to to go back to what we were a couple years ago and being energy independent. IIRC, for the first time in years the USA was actually exporting oil it did not need.

Speaking of misinformation.

JLC

[captainccs]

No, the alternative to to go back to what we were a couple years ago and being energy independent. IIRC, for the first time in years the USA was actually exporting oil it did not need.

While I favor EVs I agree with the above entirely.

But, if the politicians want to subsidise my portfolio, why should I object? LOL

The Captain

[telegraph]

https://www.cars.com/articles/your-guide-to-ev-batteries-pre…

Some batteries better than others.

Nissan Leaf batteries not the greatest and ‘fast charging’ degrades them faster.

t.

[albaby1]

No, the alternative to to go back to what we were a couple years ago and being energy independent. IIRC, for the first time in years the USA was actually exporting oil it did not need.

You don’t need to go back a few years. The USA is still a net exporter of petroleum. In fact, we’re exporting more now than ever:

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&…

Albaby

[jaagu]

I’m keeping my ICE for now.

================================================

And pay for high cost gasoline and ICE maintenance.

Jaak

[jaagu]

I’ve just spoken to a Kia car salesman who tells me that no one is buying electric at the moment due to the massive rise in energy prices here in the UK:

Owners of electric vehicles will face drastically increased charging costs in the coming months due to the energy price cap increase, the RAC has calculated.

============================================

The Kia car salesman for got to tell you that gasoline are also going up and that ICE owners also pay higher maintenance costs while polluting the neighborhood with toxic emissions and CO2 emissions.

Jaak