fine art by the numbers

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/jim-rogers-next-bear-market-1…

Contemporary artwork has outperformed the S&P 500 by a commanding 174% over the past 25 years, according to the Citi Global Art Market chart.

And it’s becoming a popular way to diversify because it’s a real physical asset with little correlation to the stock market.

On a scale of -1 to +1, with 0 representing no link at all, Citi found the correlation between contemporary art and the S&P 500 was just 0.12 during the past 25 years.


As a fine artist with an interest in assets, digital art has zero rarity. NFT contracts create digital scarcity. For two decades now digital art has been dropping in value. Today that is no longer true when an NFT is applied.
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As a fine artist with an interest in assets, digital art has zero rarity. NFT contracts create digital scarcity. For two decades now digital art has been dropping in value. Today that is no longer true when an NFT is applied.

Four words: “Right Click. Save as.”

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Four words: “Right Click. Save as.”

Always…in this case as .blender files. Animation files.

There are a lot of reasons to save as.

Four words: “Right Click. Save as.”

You want to own a Picasso because there are only so many Picassos. Likewise for all the “revered” artists.

NFT has the illusion of scarcity since someone lays claim to the title of the original, but since you can make 10,000 perfectly identical copies, is it really scarce? 1,000,000?

Not to mention that anything with a digital footprint can be manufactured into an NFT. While Christies, et. al. make a good living selling all sorts of collectibles, at the end of the day there is still a limited supply of things people want to overpay for. How many sound files, jpgs, movs, and all the other digital format “things” are there? It’s an infinite supply, being chased by a large - but limited - amount of money.

I don’t see a good ending here for these “investors”, except perhaps in a few isolated and unique cases.

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Stephen Colbert has already done a monologue on NFT’s. According to Colbert NFT stands for No F#$@%*^ Thing . As in you are buying "No F…

It will be interesting to see when someone figures out a hack and there will be a 100,000,000 copies of a “limited edition” NFT.

NH

but since you can make 10,000 perfectly identical copies, is it really scarce?


Wouldn’t that be the case with any lithograph )numbered, or not)?

Jeff

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NFT has the illusion of scarcity since someone lays claim to the title of the original, but since you can make 10,000 perfectly identical copies, is it really scarce? 1,000,000?

Goofy,

Usually you are one of my heroes on here but frankly you do not comprehend any of this properly.

I can make billions of digital copies of Guernica. Or whatever else.

The NFT is a contract not the actual art or the actual digital copy. Trading the contract is the value, but artistic representation makes the contract non fungible. Digital scarcity is in the contract. Civil case and even possible criminal cases of fraud can arise if there is cheating etc…just like in the hard copy world in many ways.

There is a security problem as I enter this world of NFTs. The security problem is not the NFTs. As I produce animations I need to market them to sell them. If I tweet them to gain an audience someone or even a bot can mint an NFT before I do. It is a civil court case in the making and most definitely a DMCA or take down notice. I can win that but the hassles are a pain and take time which is costly.

The first line of defense is to register my animations with the USCO. I called them and can group register unpublished animations ten at a time. The unpublished part of that matters as published it is just one animation per registration. A group registration brings my costs way down. I have group registered plenty of digital images.

The second line of defense is choosing the platform to sell my NFTs. In two cases the platforms act as gatekeepers to the higher prices for NFTs. The application is demanding. Creating a need to market first. Nix that idea.

The platform Opensea is a much larger platform where huge numbers of artists mint NFTs. There are some small issues there but nothing difficult to deal with as a set of different choices. The issue is not depending on them for the search to be found on the platform. Which means unless my art captivates audiences I go virtually nowhere. I have no reason to worry about that as my concept will captivate a lot of people.

I have a concept for up to 100 animations depending on the quality of the early variations. As the first 30 become registered with the USCO I will begin to list some NFTs on Opensea for sale. Then I will turn to marketing the NFTs. I can give my auctions a duration that is long as I pick up an audience.

The investors in the high end of the NFT market are often younger very wealthy businesspeople. A new generation of collectors that the major art institutions are not gaining as clients. There is no shortage of acumen in their investing.

An NFT could be seen as a deed when you use the word “title” but contract is the reality of it. The title of a work of art is not copyrightable. Anyone can use most titles repeatedly. Some titles get trademarked. The NFT works based on the representation of the actual digital artwork based on who created that image. It is very secure. Highly tradable and can offer digital creators a royalty just like a TV production or movie production would.

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It will be interesting to see when someone figures out a hack and there will be a 100,000,000 copies of a “limited edition” NFT.

You can not start with the hacking of an NFT. You have to turn immediately to hacking the blockchain it is on. But then the Nodes, I believe they are called, that keep the accounting correct would simply reject the hacking efforts as incorrect information. The nodes in the Tor Network, I believe it is called, constantly check the information for the entire blockchain. I do not specifically know how many thousand nodes there are.

Good luck with that.

You are not the first think of it. But thinking and doing are two extremes for this.

Wouldn’t that be the case with any lithograph )numbered, or not)?

Jeff


A lithograph created by Andy Warhol is worth more than a lithograph created by john doe. Even if Andy produces far more of his.

The creator on the NFT determines the value in larger part. His or her work has value depending on the collectors.

But thinking and doing are two extremes for this.

You might want to let the Chinese, Russian, North Korean, and Iranian hackers know this.

NH

His or her work has value depending on the collectors.

This is true of ALL collectables. Just like the Dutch and tulip bulbs.

NH

You might want to let the Chinese, Russian, North Korean, and Iranian hackers know this.

There have been forks put into blockchains, but hackers have not changed the information successfully yet. The problem is if it is egregious it fails to change it for long even if it is hacked. The ledger would revert. There is a full record of the blockchain going back on all the nodes.

There are the screamers that say want for quantum computing. I am waiting. But that is not so simple. As of now it is believed that a quantum computer will not be able to add one and one equals two. But will be able to solve so far unsolvable math problems. With two or more pieces of information in a switch simple math is not possible I guess.

I never said collectibles do not go up and down in value. It is a market.

But a non fungible token for my art forms a different market than for anyone else’s art.

My NFT is not worth the same value as anyone else’s NFT.

The market is very volatile but go back to the OP in this thread and read on the value of fine art v the SPX. You’d be much better off with investment grade fine art. Younger investors are going with NFTs.

If no one else here gets it that is only on them.

Tulips were a good thing to trade and still are being sold for good money.

All corporations come and go as well. And when they go they are not selling any longer.

Families with massive intergenerational wealth looking for very long term investments can trust artwork to be here much longer than corporations. The Rockefellers have divested from XOM but retain an expensive art collections. Note I do not know much about what is in that collection.

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Speaking of fine art…

As my moniker says, I used to own a 1938 Packard Model 1600. Here is a link to the automobile. It is a link to the person whom I sold it to a few years back.

https://www.tomlaferriere.com/listings/1938-packard-1600-tou…

It seems that vintage automobile collecting is also a way to invest. While the market is cyclical (muscle cars, 1920’s cars, 1980’s cars, monster trucks, etc.) like other investments, if you buy low and sell high, it usually works out. Not only that, but if you have a “driver” you get to take the family out for rides as well.

Loved my '38Packard, but today’s drivers are too aggressive for such an old automobile that has no power brakes, power steering, etc. to be on the road with these a**holes. Now if I could come across a 1968 Camaro…

'38Packard

Goofyhoofy,

I don’t see a good ending here for these “investors”, except perhaps in a few isolated and unique cases.

I see an NFT as the same as owning the copyright on a piece of music or a pop song recording. If you own The Beatles catalog, it’s very valuable. The fact the people can pirate the music and make copies of it doesn’t seem to make it any less valuable.

An NFT by an unknown “artist”, has the same value as song or painting by an unknown “artist”.

“Art” is whatever people are willing to pay for. “Greater fool” theory applies.

intercst

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Leap,

You might want to chech with IBM as they have they have a 65 Qubit Quantum unit currently available for sale. I believe Google and Amazon have both been using Quantum machines for the past few years.

The Chinese claim to have a 66 Qubit computer but I not seen that independently verified.

NH

There are the screamers that say want for quantum computing. I am waiting. But that is not so simple. As of now it is believed that a quantum computer will not be able to add one and one equals two. But will be able to solve so far unsolvable math problems. With two or more pieces of information in a switch simple math is not possible I guess.

Quantum computers exist today. Brief primer here:
https://www.ibm.com/topics/quantum-computing

IBM claims that their clients are using quantum computing today to solve real-world applications. Details at link above. You might compare quantum computing today to where classical computing was in the mid-1940s: a handful of machines working only on the highest-value problems, with a lot of interest in what else might be possible.

Current cryptography (specifically AES-256) is safe from current and near-future quantum computing. (“I have a truly marvelous demonstration of this proposition which this margin is too narrow to contain.”) Hypothetically, yes, at some point, quantum computers will catch up. Researchers are already looking into quantum-safe cryptography.

I maintain a soft disbelief in NFTs at this time. I do not see that they offer me anything for the money spent. Unless I have some means to enforce my property rights, I don’t really get anything from the NFT’s purchase. This is not a religious conviction, and I’m willing to be persuaded. But for now it seems like high-tech snake oil.

If you can make money with these things to further your art, then more power to you.

Regards,

  • HCF
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NH,

Dont know much about it but have heard reports of problems being solved with Quantum computing. It is still in its infancy.

There are the screamers that say “wait” for quantum computing. I am waiting. But that is not so simple

HCF and NH,

Now I see the mix up, by wait I mean quantum computers will hack blockchains. I think you get that drift. But I do not mean there are NO quantum machines.

HCF,

It is not that NFTs are worth money. It is that some of the art has a lot of merit. The contract controls that merit. The collector makes a claim if only to his buddies that he owns the NFT.

There is a new design element at this time because of digital art. An advance in images is what I mean. There were forever just seven design elements, line, form, texture, light, shape, color, space, the new design element is motions. Whether it is a GIF or animation this advance matters. Yes movies and TVs are front runners. This is still in close to the same period of time in the scheme of things. This is new to museum art or gallery art. There are digital shows now.

The value of art is very variable and volatile. But again investment grade fine art has outpaced the SPX over a two decade period by 175%. There are companies that fell out of the SPX or bankrupted. It is not all roses in any broad based investment vehicle.

The computer is technically a machine and at one time was called a computational machine. The Babbage Difference Engine was a credited with being the first mechanical computer. Alan Turing’s code breaker computer was a mechanical computing machine. One of the early computer programming languages was actually called Machine Language.

So there are Quantum machines in the form of Quantum Computational Machines made by International Business Machines.

NH

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