Of course, a side effect may be discrimination in employment against Hispanics that are native born US citizens, because native born USians don’t need any stinking “papers”.
I have seen this movie before.
2 Likes
That makes the Gov a criminal when he orders illegals to be bused to another state. LOCK HIM UP !!!
5 Likes
Not if you don’t know my status. The law is styled as a prohibition on human trafficking. It’s language isn’t going to reach bus drivers or Metrorail conductors.
Both “JCs” and bus drivers will tend to play it safe, refusing to deal with anyone that looks Hispanic, rather than having to take a chance they can convince the prosecutor they did not know the person was an illegal. What is that old saying “ignorance is not a defense”?
And maybe the same treatment for anyone who looks black, because they might be a Haitian.
Steve
2 Likes
Andy,
No that wont happen in some districts…you can guess which.
The harassment is for anyone who is not in a safe district in support of the governor. He is out to harass everyone who wont vote for him.
The old sign, “The Irish Need Not Apply”.
1 Like
Interesting so if you have cocaine on you I won’t be charged for that also? Because I wouldn’t know your status?
Andy
Ahh so it’s a Fascist movement to attack your opposition. It’s amazing what the people of Florida will put up with.
Andy
If a passenger gets on your bus or metro car and has cocaine in their pocket, and you don’t know it’s there? No - you haven’t committed any crime. Criminal charges require intent, which generally requires knowledge of the criminal activity.
The targets of these provisions aren’t bus drivers or carpoolers. And De Santos certainly doesn’t want random Hispanics to get targeted (he needs their votes). The target of these provisions is obvious:
Immigration advocacy groups
That’s who you can really prosecute. Groups of people who provide services for the undocumented, who are regularly organizing them and helping them out. Groups that (conveniently) are certain to have files and emails and texts among their members that document that they are aware of the immigration status of their clients.
And since this has been added to the human trafficking statute, once you mail a few staffers of these organizations you can indict the whole organization as a RICO racketeering entity.
That’s what this is for. They’re not going to care about random Uber drivers who pick up an undocumented person. They’re going to drive out every immigrant aid organization as human traffickers if they offer any kind of transportation assistance.
2 Likes
I know that is what you believe will happen but I can’t wait to see how many people get caught up in this. It’s just like the drug laws when they went after people for transporting drugs. Eventually they were even arresting people who bought vehicles at auction that were transporting drugs. The unintended consequences are going to be wild…for Floridians.
Andy
3 Likes
My guess is a lot of the undocumented workers are not employees but rather day workers or contractors. And that is why the law is worded this way.
5 Likes
The number “25” is not magical, nor is it some sort of conspiracy. It is a commonly used limit (50 is also common for certain things) for all sorts of labor and employment laws, both Federal and State.
Examples:
“You have fewer than 25 full-time equivalent (FTE) employees”
“Employers are only required to send an employer contribution if they have 25 or more covered individuals in their workforce.”
“Employers with 25 or more employees.”
3 Likes
I can understand wanting to reform immigration laws and making sure we know who is in the country and for what reason. But these knee jerk reactions are going to have serious consequences. Like it or not, we have an economy built on these people being here and doing work that citizens won’t do, especially not at those wages, sometimes not at ANY wage. You thought you saw inflation last year, you ain’t seen nothin’ yet. You think you have problems with dining staff, you ain’t seen nothin’ yet.
Nothing is forcing the farmers I know in north rural Texas who KNOWINGLY hire, and sometimes house, undocumented workers.
10 years back I had to hire a plumber to do a nasty chore of replacing cast iron sewer pipes under the slab of our house. He told me “I can’t get an American boy to do this work, no matter how much I pay, and that is not an exaggeration.” He wasn’t wrong.
So how about, instead of deporting and criminalizing, we go around and start documenting these people? How about we staff immigration to handle the obvious demand? Instead of a wall how about more border crossings?
6 Likes
Usually BJ the people who use and abuse illegals are the same ones who are having them work for them. But without having real laws for immigration it allows them to hire them cheaply, and pay them or not pay them at all.
Andy
3 Likes
Perhaps - but arresting bus and uber drivers is not likely to be one of them.
It’s not like the auction car scenario. Having a sizable amount of cocaine in a car is a very uncommon occurrence. So a prosecutor can argue to a jury with a straight face the only real credible explanation is that the owner put it there, and that the claim that it was there when he bought it at auction is a lie.
That’s not the case with random transportation workers. Having an undocumented person use your service without your knowledge is common to the point of ubiquity. If you’ve got a city bus with 20 people on it, it’s more likely than not that at least one person is undocumented. A prosecutor would be laughed out of court if he tried to argue that the undocumented person couldn’t possibly have ended up on that bus without the knowledge of the bus driver.
But the immigrant assistance organizations, who will work with folks crossing the border out west and try to arrange transportation to places where they might find relatives, work, or shelter? Yeah - those folks are right in the crosshairs of this law.
4 Likes
Those are the low hanging fruit. After those are gone then the other problems start popping up.
Ahhh “not likely” that is the same thing they said when asked “Will the atom bomb ever be used”
Andy
3 Likes
Some countries, like Germany, have had a guest worker program for decades. I remember reading, decades ago, about many of the assembly line workers at BMW were Turks.
I remember a proposal, offered by a US POTUS, some 20 years ago, for a guest worker program. iirc, the proposal would allow half a million entrants in the US per year. They had to have a job lined up to enter the US, and, if they quit that job, no matter how badly they were treated, they would be immediately deported, so they were about half a step off of being slaves. The proposal went nowhere.
Why can’t the US have a guest worker program now?
Here are a few clues (paraphrasing)
-Mexicans are rapists and drug dealers
-Haitians have AIDS
-ban Muslims from entering the US
-why don’t people come here from Norway?
Shiny-land only wants people from places like Norway, not people from third world countries. Guess why.
Steve
2 Likes
But not going after bus drivers and uber drivers. Again, you can’t make those charges work. The statute has an intent requirement. The transporter has to know (or be presumed to know) that the people they’re transporting are undocumented. There’s no way to make that stick to a bus or uber driver. You’ll never be able to prove it - and unlike the auction drug car, you can’t credibly make an argument that a jury should presume knowledge because of how unlikely it is that the violation would occur without knowledge.
1 Like
Maybe or maybe not. That will be decided in court. Just like the people that were getting cars in auction and then being charged for drugs. They too won their cases, after going to court.
Andy
1 Like
It does, for ag workers and a few other specific categories. Of course, the laws are NOT enforced–and never shall be. It would be a lot better if the employer was required to pay the employees’ salaries directly to the govt and then have the govt pay the employees. It would prevent a lot of employers from ripping off the employees working on a visa.