Florida is seeing a partial trucker boycott

[buynholdisdead]

@albaby1

Construction might end up being a bigger problem…but it’s nothing some selective enforcement and a few blind eyes can’t adjust to.

Spoken like a politician LOL. If this isn’t an indictment of politics in Florida I am not sure what does.

Andy

[albaby1]

@Leap1

That does not answer if out of state truckers who are Latino will not cost the state with this boycott.

Yeah, that’s not likely to happen. Trucking is a fractured and independent industry to begin with. A handful of truckers claiming they’re going to boycott Florida is not the same as an actual, meaningful boycott of Florida. I don’t think Publix or Sysco are going to have any trouble arranging for their logistics.

[buynholdisdead]

@albaby1

As I noted upthread, agriculture is a very tiny part of our economy. Barely 0.6% of state GDP directly, still less than 1% even if you include indirect and supporting jobs. And since the “death penalty” provision of losing state licenses doesn’t apply to Department of Agriculture licenses, this probably won’t be targeted towards rural field workers, but rather at coastal city hospitality workers.

So are you saying the law does not include Agriculture licenses? What if people turn in agriculture business to force them to comply?

Andy

[Leap1]

Latinos are only 20% give or take of the truckers. White truckers are about 57%.

We know how white men use a situation. LOL You will end up with higher trucking rates.

[albaby1]

@buynholdisdead

Spoken like a politician LOL. If this isn’t an indictment of politics in Florida I am not sure what is.

Turning a blind eye to immigration violations is hardly a Florida phenomenon. Arguably the reason why we have the type of immigration situation we have is because there are lots of broad-based constituencies that benefit from not enforcing existing regulations.

[Leap1]

Us Irish folks have come here illegally for eons. No one cares.

[buynholdisdead]

@albaby1

Turning a blind eye to immigration violations is hardly a Florida phenomenon. Arguably the reason why we have the type of immigration situation we have is because there are lots of broad-based constituencies that benefit from not enforcing existing regulations.

Right Albaby but Florida is saying they are going to fix it. So if you turn a blind eye it is just business as usual. Nothing has changed. What you are saying is that Desantis is blowing smoke.

Andy

[albaby1]

@buynholdisdead

So are you saying the law does not include Agriculture licenses? What if people turn in agriculture business to force them to comply?

That’s correct. The law allows the Department of Economic Opportunity (DEO) to revoke employer licenses that are issued by the DEO as the “death penalty” sanction. So if your restaurant gets caught with too many undocumented line cooks, DEO can pull your license and shut you down. But agricultural operations don’t pull licenses from the DEO - they pull their licenses, as you might expect, from the Department of Agriculture. Which licenses aren’t included in that provision of the bill.

[Leap1]

But there is very little ag.

Why bother? Because it can harass people.

[albaby1]

@buynholdisdead

Right Albaby but Florida is saying they are going to fix it. So if you turn a blind eye it is just business as usual. Nothing has changed. What you are saying is that Desantis is blowing smoke.

No, I don’t think so. I think they’re going to make a serious effort to try to clamp down on undocumented folks living in Florida, and make their lives very difficult.

I do think, however, that they’ve deliberately left themselves the ability to make sure that the communities that are firmly in the GOP coalition can be spared the worst of it. For example, given how notorious the role of migrant farm workers is in the agricultural industry, the omission of Department of Agriculture licenses from the civil enforcement side (as opposed to other licenses) has to be a deliberate choice by the Legislature. Since Florida - like most states - has a pronounced rural/urban skew in partisan affiliation, I suspect that’s intended to make sure that the status quo in rural areas isn’t as deeply affected as perhaps the restaurants and hoteliers of Miami Beach or Fort Lauderdale.

[buynholdisdead]

@albaby1

That’s correct. The law allows the Department of Economic Opportunity (DEO) to revoke employer licenses that are issued by the DEO as the “death penalty” sanction. So if your restaurant gets caught with too many undocumented line cooks, DEO can pull your license and shut you down. But agricultural operations don’t pull licenses from the DEO - they pull their licenses, as you might expect, from the Department of Agriculture. Which licenses aren’t included in that provision of the bill.

That is not what this video is stating

New Florida law puts restrictions on businesses hiring undocumented workers

Nor this video.

How farmers say Florida's new immigration bill could impact agricultural industry

So it looks like you can not even transport Illegals, so any farmer taking them to the fields would be covered under this law. I wonder what the bounty is?

Andy

[albaby1]

The media is notoriously bad at accurately reporting legal or legislative matters. You can read the text of the bill here:

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/1718

But…on closer read, that section is a bit more of a mess than the legislative summaries suggest. Only DEO is given enforcement jurisdiction to suspend or revoke licenses…however, the language does say all licenses by any state agency. The problem, though, is that DEO doesn’t have the authority to revoke licenses issued by another agency - that sort of thing isn’t really allowed under Chapter 120, which is our state-level Administrative Procedure Act. So while one could make an argument that other licenses might be subject to suspension or revocation, I don’t think the State will be able to do that.

Dollars to donuts that this gets addressed in the (inevitable) glitch bill on this next session.

[buynholdisdead]

@albaby1

But…on closer read, that section is a bit more of a mess than the legislative summaries suggest. Only DEO is given enforcement jurisdiction to suspend or revoke licenses…however, the language does say all licenses by any state agency. The problem, though, is that DEO doesn’t have the authority to revoke licenses issued by another agency - that sort of thing isn’t really allowed under Chapter 120, which is our state-level Administrative Procedure Act. So while one could make an argument that other licenses might be subject to suspension or revocation, I don’t think the State will be able to do that.

I think you are focused on DEO but haven’t taken this into account.

** Abill working its way through the Florida Legislature would criminalize the “knowing and willful” transportation of undocumented immigrants “into or within” the state. If enacted, Senate Bill (SB) 1718 could impact Florida’s hospitality and agricultural sectors.**

and this.

SB 1718 would amend Title XLVI of the Florida Statutes, Section 787.07, to provide criminal penalties for “persons who knowingly and willfully violate, or who reasonably should know and who violate, certain provisions relating to the transporting into or within [Florida]” of illegal immigrants. The proposed amendment would also criminalize the “concealing, harboring, or shielding from detection, or the attempt thereof,” of undocumented immigrants. These actions would be considered a third-degree felony under the proposed amendment.

and this.

A separate offense would be committed for each undocumented immigrant transported, concealed, harbored, or shielded from detection. An individual “who commits five or more separate offenses” during a single episode could be charged with a second-degree felony.

The proposed amendment would require those arrested for its violation to be held in custody until their appearance in court for pretrial release.

I do not see how this can not effect every job in Florida, unless you turn a blind eye to the law as you suggested before.

Andy

[MarkR]

@buynholdisdead

But this is going to cause the GDP of Florida tank because who, exactly, are they going to do the work in the fields?

Agriculture is 1.5% of Florida GDP.

[albaby1]

@buynholdisdead

I do not see how this can not effect every job in Florida, unless you turn a blind eye to the law as you suggested before.

Almost by definition, everyone currently working in Florida unlawfully is already physically in Florida. So a law that criminalizes transportation of undocumented people knowing their undocumented status is unlikely to materially affect the vast majority of current workers in Florida.

It might stem the flow of folks into the State….though again, I question how much of a priority this is going to end up being for local law enforcement. One reason we have large numbers of undocumented workers already (in Florida and elsewhere) is because there’s a lot of incentives for enforcement agencies to not enforce.

[qazulight]

@DrBob2

Something in the new law that a lot of people here have been calling for:
"Requires private employers with 25 or more employees and all public agencies to use the federal E-Verify system to verify a new employee’s employment eligibility, starting on July 1.

“Requires employers to fire an employee if they discover them to be a “foreign national” who is not authorized to work in the U.S. and makes it illegal for any person to knowingly employ, hire, recruit or even refer, either for herself or himself or on behalf of another, for private or public employment within the state, such a person.”

DB2

I wonder if anyone happened to check the size of the companies that most ilegal immigrants work at. My guess is that the 25 is not a random number and that the law was drafted specifically not to have a large impact.

Cheers
Qazulight

[buynholdisdead]

@albaby1

Almost by definition, everyone currently working in Florida unlawfully is already physically in Florida. So a law that criminalizes transportation of undocumented people knowing their undocumented status is unlikely to materially affect the vast majority of current workers in Florida.

Albaby, Let us say you are undocumented. You live in Florida, You ask me to take you to work. I give you a ride and the police pull me over. Am I not transporting an Undocumented person?

@albaby1

It might stem the flow of folks into the State….though again, I question how much of a priority this is going to end up being for local law enforcement. One reason we have large numbers of undocumented workers already (in Florida and elsewhere) is because there’s a lot of incentives for enforcement agencies to not enforce.

If that is the case are not the people in Florida able to realize this is just a ruse?

Andy

[buynholdisdead]

@qazulight

I wonder if anyone happened to check the size of the companies that most ilegal immigrants work at. My guess is that the 25 is not a random number and that the law was drafted specifically not to have a large impact.

Good catch Qazu, that means this would have a much more meaningful affect on agriculture than restaurants. As I suspect that a lot more people work for each farm are illegal as it is hard to get 25 illegals working at one restaurant.

Andy

[buynholdisdead]

@MarkR

Agriculture is 1.5% of Florida GDP.

Right Mark but if they really implement this and it isn’t just a bandaid, then we shouldn’t see any illegals in Florida. But I suspect it is just like albaby states, this is just a ruse and nothing will change.

Andy

[MarkR]

@buynholdisdead

But I suspect it is just like albaby states, this is just a ruse and nothing will change.

It is almost definitely BS … it’s politics after all.