Gold draining from West to East

It is widely believed that the bullion banks in The West are artificially suppressing the price of gold. The price of an ounce of gold in The West is under $2,000 while in China it is about $100 an ounce more:

Today’s retail price of gold bars is on China’s largest e-commerce platform,. No limit on purchase quantity, repurchase gold bars. It is equivalent to 2066 US dollars.

I suspect that the reason for the price suppression in The West is that continual price rises will undermine the weakness of the fiat currency system.

I’ve bought more gold this week. I got a few of these at a very good price, lower than the price shown here:

https://atkinsonsbullion.com/gold/gold-coins/gold-sovereign-coins/2023-uk-coronation-half-sovereign-gold-5-coin-bullion-bundle

I’m already in profit :slight_smile:

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So how are you doing this? Are you actually taking possession of the gold?

Andy

Bloggers dont count.

Or when they do count you can not believe the numbers.

Does a Japanese company still own Pebble Beach?

Yes, just baseless rumours:

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Yep, All held by me in very secure safes!

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Wouldn’t spoof orders raise the price? Wouldn’t stopping spoof offers leave fewer players? Or just the real players who wont do as much to support the market?

You found not the first of institutions bidding up the market. If all have been doing that it ruins your idea that market otherwise would go up.

The bloggers have it backwards.

adding regardless it is important to know the scope of investment bank involvement before declaring it is being manipulated by everyone. The reason is investment banks will always be in all the markets.

You might also note that JPM being found guilty in 2022 means they probably are not manipulating the market now when you need them to be to make your case.

Leap1, all financial markets are manipulated:

I don’t disagree that there are forces at work in the gold market that can be disruptive; and may even be described as manipulative. However, the same is true of all financial markets – stocks, bonds, commodities, etc.

Derivatives are probably the main cause of market manipulation:

It’s just one big casino

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Very true all markets are manipulated. Mostly in legal ways.

You need to position yourself in life. Best of luck to you. May it always shine.

Sure about that?

Certainly. $200 billon over 20 years is $10B per year. Wells Fargo has averaged about $90 billion/yr in revenue. Morgan Stanley about $35 billion/yr. JPM about $120 billion/yr. GS about $35 billion/yr. C about $90 billion/yr. BAC about $100 billion/yr.

By far the largest settlements were with Bank of America. IIRC, most of those were a result of the rescue takeover of Countrywide and its home loans in 2008. Number two is JPM which rescued Washington Mutual in 2008.

“Bank of America’s $4 billion all-share purchase of Countrywide Financial could be the first of a number of heavyweight mergers or acquisitions in a US market bracing itself for sweeping changes in the wake of the subprime collapse. One tie-up gaining ever-greater
credence is the acquisition of a brittle Washington Mutual by a bullish JPMorgan Chase…The deal by Bank of America (BofA) for Countrywide Financial has largely saved Countrywide, still the largest mortgage originator ($408 billion) and servicer ($1.5 trillion), from possible collapse…”

DB2

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@Divitias You are running off with a deflated ball.

It’s quite odd to see you arguing that gold is an immutable store of value, while at the same time posting links showing that its price can be manipulated - and often is, by demonstrating how many people have done it.

Maybe “money” isn’t so bad after all?

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Not only that, but how many gold dealers seem to be willing to take your fiat currency in exchange for their “real money”? :smiley:

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They can’t pay their bills using gold. Or any other debt.

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That is why they should have bought bitcoin instead of gold.

Andy

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They can’t pay their bills with bitcoin.

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Au contraire mon frère

Andy

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Not quite. Bitpay simply converts your crypto into dirty fiat. Try this: go to anyplace that says “bitcoin accepted here “ and try to make a purchase with a payment on the blockchain. Can’t do it. You must use a third party.

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I don’t care what they convert it into. I paid in Bitcoin, what they do after that is not my concern. It would be like paying in USD and then they convert it into peso’s, do you really care that it was converted into another denomination?

Andy

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Emphasis on the word “retail”. For the past five decades I’ve, on occasion, roamed through Asia and, over the years have substituted 22-24K gold bangles of the same diameter (of the first one we bought) instead of refrigerator magnets. Over the years, she’s accumulated quite a few of them - in many different styles, depending on what country they were bought in.

Generally, these have come from ethnic Chinese or Indian environments where gold was the accepted alternative for rapidly inflating local currency. The buy/sell spreads are paper-thin and the price is adjusted proportional to the allow (24k is actually a bit too soft for bracelets as they easily deform, so 22K is the most frequent mix). After establishing the "value of the item, the balance 0of the negotiation is over the amount charged for “workmanship” which includes the shop’s profit.

I usually pre-prepare a matrix showing the price per gram (or local weight system, on occasion) of various karat purities in terms of local currency before we go shopping.

While the value of the purchases over time has appreciated, while selling items like this is easy in Asia, there are resale issues in the US which is more accustomed to 1 ounce slugs, so these trinkets do not form part of my “gold strategy”.

I do keep some physical metal in my bank’s safe deposit box (say 1% of assets) and about 15% of my equity portfolio is in various mining issues - some specifically gold orient, but most are broader in scope.

Gold is an imperfect hedge against inflation. While it retains value, it is most likely to soar in “value” when one’s currency is in the process of being destroyed. Unless all currencies simultaneously head towards no value as their values are simply ratios to each other), gold is simply a proxy for stronger currencies. During the financial crisis of 2009, gold soared in relation to the US dollar, but so did currencies like the Australian dollar, the Canadian dollar, the Euro and the Swiss frank. In fact, for most of the period (with one interim reset), while gold soared compared to the US dollar, it was nearly completely flat compared to the Australian buck. One saving grace for my stock portfolio is that a large portion has been valued in terms of foreign currencies for a very long time. Little comfort if stocks go lower, but this is hedged by the underlying currencies going up. (Of course, during periods when the USD rises, as it has more recently, the hedge is reversed).

If I ever have to fall back on using the physical gold (something I think would be a black swan of Godzilla proportions), all the gold ETF shares that I might have owned would be most useful as electronic toilet paper. In the meantime, gold has been most to me because wearing the bangles puts a smile on my wife’s face.

When discussing gold, advertised retail price indicated by resellers has little importance except if you are forcing yourself to either buy or sell through them at any particular time. (One of my two “major” gold purchases (many years ago) was buying part of a recently divorced Indian woman’s dowry - all “known” 1 oz coins - at bouillon pricing in a win/win as neither of us had to pay a commission).

Jeff

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