How does this compare to the labor situation in your state?

Investment Analysis Clubs Macro Economic Trends and Risks
41

Both my Daughter & Granddaughter later as teachers ran into kids doing rotten things, then the Pricipal sided with the kid and/or the parents, so zero support by the ‘boss’, in not just one district but multiples, so in the end both have left the system. Daughter went on into corporate trying, authoring a couple books along the way. Granddaughter stuck it out to get her California credentials, but married moved now to PA, maybe to do part time subbing, maybe different there… Don’t know yet…

The youngsters involved in the incidents I know if just had no respect, attitude, class clown… Another lit afire sheets of paper in the classroom, parents super defensive… Just idiotic, and in that case dangerous…

They earned their degrees, Calif. Accreditations, only to find really crappy management… Teacher’s Union was little or no help, as in GD’s situation she was still in her early times, not yet covered, but I think they were powerless as well… Sad to see…

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If you have Instagram, this is how parents are supposed to act. Many seem to need lessons on this.

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Our kids graduated from what was considered a very good school district in PA. My experience as a parent there was that the administration was political. The budget was the priority. One year, after the best math teacher I have ever met was fired when he tried to help a kid who then accused him of bad acts, (a decades long clean record vs proof-less slander of one kid with bad grades,) they replaced him with the full time sub who had a degree in History and no clue about math. This went on for months, until enough parents got enraged, and they finally hired a replacement. It was very clear that the administration was more interested in what was best for the budget and less so about the best interest of the kids…even on masse vs as an individual.

We were also hindered in getting help for Youngest, who was later diagnosed with ADHD in college, but when I repeatedly went in to guidance to try to figure out what was going on with him. They repeatedly insisted he was fine but we were eventually directed towards a therapist to evaluate him, who echoed the schools insistence there was no problem. It’s expensive for schools to allow for concessions, and this therapist knew who referred all the clients to him. That school threw him under the bus for the sake of the budget, and it had pretty serious consequences that I won’t go into. Parents, if you find yourself referring to your kid as “an adrenaline junkie,” it’s likely ADHD, no matter how good the grades and behavior. Your kid’s brain is struggling and he’s wondering what is wrong with him. Don’t depend on the school to figure out where to go for help. The school will be focused more on what it will do to their budget rather than what it means for your child. The irony is that when properly diagnosed, Youngest refused all drugs and accommodations, but learned tools to understand how his brain worked differently from the general public and how to set up learning in a way that worked for him. He wouldn’t have cost the school a dime, though our whole family bore a high mental health and dollar cost from the school’s obfuscation. On the plus side, his experience of being misunderstood has made him into a very empathetic young adult. He amazes me endlessly with how good a person he is, but that was in spite of the lack of help he got, not because of.

I guess that’s a long way to say I don’t anticipate it being any different in PA for your granddaughter.

IP,
who hates asking the right questions but getting the wrong answers…particularly when it’s intentional

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44

Keep in mind that the issue is what to do about the shortage of affordable child care. If you have a solution that solves that problem without any additional costs I’d like to see it. Otherwise, I think all year schooling is the best option.

And it doesn’t have to be a 33% increase nor does it have to apply to every school district. The schools that would benefit the most from an all year calendar are those in poorer districts where students are underperforming. Poor districts are also the ones most in need of affordable day care as they are over-represented with single parent households. I believe the most cost-efficient (not cost-free) way to deal with these problems is all year schooling.

The national average is 180 school days. I suggest that underperforming schools shift to approximately 200 school days organized in five 8-week sessions with each followed by a two week break. Teachers would earn a commensurate higher salary based on the extra work days. The underperforming student body would gain an additional 20 school days (on average) to catch up to their more privileged peers, while also being able to spend more time away from non-school environments that may often be dysfunctional. The benefit for parents is that finding day care for two-week intervals is much less challenging than for the standard 3 month summer break.

There are variations that can be added. For example, one could give teachers the option of making extra money by teaching specialty classes during the two-week break, such as in art, music, cooking, or other topics of interest. Perhaps could interest the growing population of retirees to volunteer for this type of short-term, informal education.

While this will cost money, if it increases academic success and reduces the dropout rate then there will be cost savings down the road in reduced rates of incarceration, teen pregnancies, and welfare payments.

Is it a big change that will take some adjusting to? Sure. But breaking the cycle of poverty will require making big changes. No doubt many can find objections, but it is always useful to think outside the box.

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Well, granddaughter’s problems were out here in CA, the Salinas school district, an ESL program, so maybe some language issues, but still the management was pretty messed up, and as she was a newbie, just trying to complete her accreditation, she was stuck…

In PA, so far, she’s only looked at subbing, not enthused, as it pays a lot less than out here in CA, is she’s had a tele sales job, or two, they cut back, so she’s currently in a sandwich shop, keeping busy… However, just down with Covid, the dangers of dealing with the public, but the company is covering her time off, good to her…

Young couple, hubby is doing well in IT support, tele based, they could live anywhere, but now bought a home they liked, but early error of no inspection to nail it down at a discount, but now more bills than expected… Ahh, the young… Learning…

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46

Coming from a top psychiatrist half of people diagnosed with ADHD do not have it. It is way overdiagnosed. If someone diagnosed with ADHD does not need medication they do not have it.

@btresist

Going to 200 days after Covid probably would have best for all districts. The money for that is hard to find.

Our GDP has way underperformed from 1981 to 2020. Because of stupidity, we can not afford it. Over the next five years and going forward much more will be affordable.

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As usual, you don’t know what you are talking about. He has tried meds and it worked, but the side effects were terrible so he learned other coping skills. Harder, but possible. Good thing he learned to do without meds, considering the extreme shortage of them these days.

He also did without pain meds after he was released from the hospital after his compound fracture of the tibia and two other fractures were surgically repaired. Took Tylenol for a couple of days but refused the oxy. I guess you would say that means his leg wasn’t broken either.

IP

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As usual, you come up with small insults because you are a small person.

I never said he did not have ADHD. You can not read worth a damn.

49

These positives are unlikely to happen without parental support. You can stick a kid in school 12 hours a day 7 days a week, and unless there is mandated time to do the work as well, don’t expect improvements. And what will be done with problem students who disrupt the class?

The French saw public taxpayer funded education as a privilege, not a right. Kids got tracked to academic track towards a paid for university, or to learn a trade. If you didn’t like the track you were put in, you had the right to pay for a private school and retest. Act up and you were out, with again the option of paying for private school.

That was admittedly 40 years ago when I was in a private high school in France. Don’t know if it has changed since then, but until the entitlement mentality changes in the USA, education will not improve.

IP

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@btresist @inparadise

The bottom line, life is what the individual makes of it even from a very young age.

I do not know that the politics of entitlement make any difference. Money has to be spent on education. Frankly, the economy gets a huge return regardless of those who waste the opportunity.

Marginally could we do better? The biggest change we could make probably is already factored into the budget. Second grade teaches most of the basic maths. Third grade to extensive time training for speed in basic maths and finish up teaching the basic maths.

The lack of time trials on how fast students can do extensive lists of math problems is haunting. All jobs at any rung on the ladder need people to think in terms of proportions and crunch basic math.

Trained in the third grade the skills never go away.

For education to find the individual in the classroom it must reach out with a strong skill. This is the first primary skill that has disappeared.

The cost to the school boards to change things? Zero.

Admittedly someone must be doing this somewhere but I come from a very affluent area and most of the 20-somethings can not do math in their heads.

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Elementary school math teachers are indeed a great place to start. I swear most teachers who head to elementary school as a certification are math phobic. All that gets taught in the conventional elementary school is math rules, which does little for understanding of math concepts. It’s all memorization and no understanding. I had a great book on the subject, written IIRC on how math is taught in Japan, but that book is long gone from my shelves so a google will have to do: Math education: US scores stink because of how schools teach lessons

Classes here often focus on formulas and procedures rather than teaching students to think creatively about solving complex problems involving all sorts of mathematics, experts said. That makes it harder for students to compete globally, be it on an international exam or in colleges and careers that value sophisticated thinking and data science.

Montessori schools teach math concepts. Our kids were doing squaring of numbers and taking square roots in kindergarten, in addition to the more typical math seen in 4-6th grades. They had tools they could manipulate to build understanding of the concept, which reduces the need for memorization of rules. Was amazing going to the room with the one way mirror where parents could observe during the day. A room full of 2-7 year olds, all working on their individual lessons that they picked out themselves, sometimes with the guidance of one of the teachers if the student was not picking their assignments to cover all subjects, and the help of one of the older students if they needed help with their assignment. You should get out of a kid’s way and let them learn. Teaching often gets in the way of learning, particularly when you are trying to teach a room full of kids the same concept at the same time.

Our schools are more about babysitting than learning.

IP

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Pretty self explanatory.

IP

53

You were the only one talking about him. That is what reading carefully is about. He needed the meds according to you. That is a litmus test for whether the diagnosis is correct.

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This is so true. And it extends through high school. Even private high schools that cost $25k+ a year.

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Are we so devolved that we smear everything in generalizations? Some folks are quoting Hitler in their smears. That is the current climate.

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Only until he learned other methods of coping, like exercise, diet and meditation. Unlike what you claim, one can be ADHD and successfully not on meds, but like the weight loss miracle drugs on the market today, it tends to be easier with them, if you are willing to accept the possible side effects. Drs. assume the patient can only do the easy. Youngest did a lot of research into how to control his ADHD without drugs, and experimented on himself. He put serious time into it, which most would not do. Interesting side note: while inability to sit still is a sign of ADHD, so is the ability to focus intensely and for long periods of time if interested in the material. https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/accessibility/transcripts/brandon-ashionoff-adhd.aspx#:~:text=Hyperfocus%20is%20a%20state%20of,at%20playing%20that%20video%20game.

Hyperfocus is a state of intense concentration where you lose track of time, you really enjoy what you’re doing and you seem to be better at that than whatever it is you’re doing. Now if you’re playing a video game, you’re really good at playing that video game. If you’re playing a sport you get really good at playing that sport, that sort of thing. This is weird in the context of ADHD because it’s actually too much attention. You’re focused so intently on something, no other information gets into your brain essentially.

More than the fact that you essentially called me a liar, stating that if a kid didn’t need meds they didn’t have ADHD, in a reply to a post where I stated that my son had eventually been diagnosed (by an actual therapist and psychiatrist, not someone who once read something on line,) and was able to cope without meds, you got in the way of a message to other parents that could help kids who are not being recognized by the system.

I used to buy into the line that ADHD is over diagnosed. For sure the meds are abused by those wanting a little boost to their concentration, and the off script sale of these meds are rampant on campus. However, like the diabetes discussion we have had, my decade plus of experience in with Youngest has very much changed my mind. So I will repeat what I said earlier: Parents, if you describe your child as an adrenaline junkie, get them evaluated for ADHD. To that I will add, EVEN in the face of lack of disciplinary and academic problems. These kids tend to be high IQ and can compensate well, but are still being torn up inside by the lack of comprehension about what makes them so different. This difference needs to be embraced and loved, but not allowed to be an excuse for lack of performance, which can be achieved either with or without meds.

And to get back to how we could improve the results in school, I would say stop with the one size fits all approach. Different people learn in different ways, and if you cram one approach down all kids, you are going to lose a good portion of them. That was likely part of the magic of the Montessori approach we saw with our kids, before they got moved to a more conventional school. By choosing what you want to explore rather than having something continuously foisted on you, learning is fun, not a chore. Attention is easy, not impossible.

IP

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Increased immigration targeting our economic needs, like childcare, eldercare, skilled laborers like plumbing and carpentry. Instead we are getting laws mandating minimum wage for Au Pair, which is not a nanny but a cultural exchange of equals where the work load should be similar to what an older child would do for the household they lived in. Oh, that’s right, kids are no longer expected to do chores here. Never mind.

Skilled labor is almost impossible to get at any cost. Same for daycare. It’s not about the $$, but about the bodies, though if there were more bodies for the jobs, it would likely be cheaper. Unskilled labor seems to be even harder. Even with paying well over minimum wage, we know someone with a restaurant who has had to eliminate lunch service, because she just can’t get willing bodies to do the work. We found many such problems in restaurants in the area. I am sure she would love to sponsor some immigrants to allow her to open her restaurant back up for lunch service, as would people who need help at home.

IP

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Unfortunately, many kids don’t have much parental support. Teachers may provide their only respectable adult role models.

One of the more effective ways to end generational poverty is to pull people out of the culture of poverty. Kids don’t have the option to relocate, so for all its faults and deficiencies, schools are often the best if not only chance for them to be in a functional, safe, and productive environment.

With respect to child care, increasing immigration doesn’t make it more affordable to the average household unless wages are kept very low. But with low wages adding an education component to child care is difficult.

The current school schedule with long summer breaks worked for when most families had two parents with one stay-at-home. It is a different society now. Two working parents is the norm and single parent households far more common. Schools need to take into account this new reality. A year round schedule with shorter but more frequent breaks is in principle more easily accommodated by working parents who find summer camps too expensive.

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If you are using the word “sponsor” as it’s been used with regards to immigration for many decades, then I am not so sure it would be economic to do so. That’s because “sponsor” means agreeing to cover any housing, sustenance, and medical care should it become necessary. In the 50s when my parents immigrated, that meant allowing them to live with you, feeding them, and paying the doctor and hospital bills directly, but in the modern world the latter means providing a comprehensive medical insurance policy. That costs somewhere between $15k and $25k a year. Add that to the normal wages and other employment taxes and it probably becomes uneconomic to open for lunch service this way.

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I get that, which is why I don’t have much hope for the so called positives in your idea. And from what I have seen, lack of parental support is not limited to the poor. Too many parents want to be friends, rather than take on the responsibility of saying no when that is what is best. Or they are not involved at all and pay no attention to their kids. I have seen many examples of this in our peer group. Money doesn’t solve everything, though having experienced the lack thereof, I will be the first to admit that it solves many problems. Somewhere our country has lost the belief in personal responsibility. That’s a problem for young and old alike.

There is lack of availability at almost any cost. Something could be arranged where the financial costs of bringing someone over and taking on requirements like English lessons and acculturalization or any other obligations that could be imposed on a host to help transition an immigrant from entry to citizen. Health insurance and possibly housing could be on the host, which is pricy in it’s own right. These would be steps taken to get past the NO IMMIGRATION proponents, and would be a great opportunity for someone wanting to immigrate legally. After a certain point, whether it be determined via time, testing or a combination, the immigrant gets a green card and is free to go elsewhere if they prefer. Perfect no, but don’t let perfect be the enemy of better. Same goes for contractors. Housing, insurance, certifications, living wages that don’t include these costs. Regulated with an agency the immigrant can report violations to and hosts can seek help from. A new agency would be the big gov’t cost, but with the benefit of an at least partial improvement to immigration, which is beneficial for the USA as well.

I think it is easy to blame the schools, which are supposed to be for education. Heaping more and more on an already tough burden does not make for a better product. As we have seen via test scores, it makes them worse.

When I was a kid there was a youth center in our town. Are those still a thing? It wasn’t for our kids.

Edited to include Mark’s response. New agency, new regulations that will need to be hashed out. Perhaps there could be an income component where the gov’t could subsidize the healthcare, housing, etc, or these subsidized could work at a gov’t daycare until such time as they satisfy their entry requirements.

IP,
ahead of the times having had two working parents and a latchkey kid by second grade