Hamas missiles are manufactured in Gaza. But they are not fertilizer bombs or acetone bombs. They are made with military grade explosives and probably parts smuggled in.
How can munitions be kept out of Gaza?
Surround Gaza with a five mile buffer zone to be patrolled by Israel to stop smugglers. Israel has incentives to inspect items crossing the border with the Sinai Strip carefully. And they could patrol the Mediterranean shore. Heaven forbid if the munitions are being smuggled through Israel
Walls and surveillance have worked so well on the USian southern border.
/sarcasm
Steve
Yes, we have some open border advocates. They think nothing can be done? Or nothing should be done? Or it wonāt work anyway.
I submit if the army canāt control their borders, Israel should surrender.
There has been a blockade of the Gaza Strip since 2007. The Gaza Strip has a population of 2 million on 141 square miles (about 25 miles long by 6 miles wide). Some trade is needed to support the population. A blockade contributes to economic hardship as it stops most trade, and will reduce smuggling, but canāt stop all smuggling. There are no easy answers here.
The U.S. Southern border is not an open border. U.S. Customs and Border Protection has more than 60,000 employees, and spent over $20 billion in 2023. I think that is substantive.
āAn open border is a border that enables free movement of people (and often of goods) between jurisdictions with no restrictions on movement and is lacking substantive border control.ā
The proposed U.S. immigration reforms that Iāve seen do not include open borders, instead these proposals increase border security. In politics, I interpret complaints about āopen bordersā as a call to spend more money to increase border security. Funding has increased in recent decades, and will probably continue to increase as there is bipartisan support for more U.S. border security.
Axios Explains: The myth of a U.S.-Mexico āopen borderā
āReality check: Since 1992, the U.S. has quadrupled the number of Border Patrol agents ā from less than 5,000 to nearly 20,000 today.ā
āAn Axios review of news stories found that the āopen borderā language took off during the Obama administration as conservatives worked to thwart planned immigration reform.ā
https://www.axios.com/2023/10/17/us-mexico-border-open-borders-myth
It would be more productive if people just said what they want (more border security) instead of vaguely describing the state of the world (perceived open borders). It also sends the wrong message. Do people really want to falsely advertise open borders? Focusing language on border security would do more to discourage possible immigrants.
Immigration affects the economy, and reforms have been long talked about, but little has been done. This forum is not the place to talk about specific reforms, but it is also not the place for political buzzwords like āopen bordersā. Previous thread discussing the U.S. border:
Dope comes in to the US from Mexico via mule at ground level, via subterranean tunnels, and by sea. If the US canāt stop dope, how could Israel stop all weapons flow to Gaza?
Steve
Fentanyl is much easier to smuggle than explosives. Total border security is impossible, but border security can always be improved (with higher expenses).
Who controls this blockade? Egypt?
How are munitions getting to Gaza? Is someone being paid off to look the other way?
Israel has much better incentives to keep an eye on smuggling. And they should be able to commit the manpower to make enforcement happen.
Far different from the US southern border where the US army definitely can stop illegals if we decide to do that. Its much more politics than national security.
The US can stop all that any time it chooses to do so. We are trying to do it on the cheap with minimal manpower. And without much support from Congress.
While you are at it, keep in mind that the US military has 3MM men & women in arms. How many do the drug smugglers have?
I think they would be foolish to take on the US army. But just let them try.
Our border defenses are intended for gentlemen. We can do much more if we decide its worth the effort.
The main thing is the Israeli messaging. It is not winning alliances globally. It is not creating an understanding for the actual Palestinians of why Hamas is their problem.
Instead, it has been an arrogant Netanyahu wasting time.
The US border with Mexico is almost 2000 miles long. The border between Israel and Gaza is less than 35 miles. The complexities of securing those borders are very different.
How about we talk about the issues instead of bringing up red herrings.
āPeter
I keep wondering what El-Sisiās game is in holding up the truckloads of aid at Rafa? An Egyptian official a couple days ago, said Israel had bombed the crossing four times. No-one else has made that claim, and one journo asked a guest specifically about that. Supposedly, 20 trucks of supplies were supposed to cross today. They didnāt, Now the media is reporting flow will start in 24-48 hrs. This has been going on for nearly two weeks. The SecGen of the UN was at that gate today decrying the obstruction of humanitarian aid.
What happens if the mob stacked up on the Gaza side of the crossing gets a big truck and rams through the gate, to get at the supplies in the trucks? Will Egyptian troops shoot them down?
Steve
Gaza has a 25 mile shoreline on the Mediterranean. Thatās vastly harder to defend and interdict than a land border. Canada supplied mega-gallons of booze via sea smuggling during Prohibition, as one example.
While it would require some trans-shipping to get from Iran (assuming the munitions are coming from there), I would note that Egypt, Libya, Lebanon and Syria also have direct sea access, so there are lots of possibilities.
The news wires this morning are reporting the Rafa crossing is finally open.
And, much more significantly, in cars and trucks through border stations.
Of course the obvious question is how will Gaza be resupplied with munitions by allies while it is under siege?
All those trucks of food, water, and medicine had better be inspected carefully. And by Israel.
Yep, it only took 20 years in Afghanistan to learn that it is difficult to beat an insurgency that looks exactly like the local population. We could certainly spend 20 years on the border relearning that lesson - with similar results.
Agreed
The issue is the dozens of tribes in Gaza. Will they align after Hamas is greatly weakened? If the tribes take control things can change. The tribes are much more representative of the Gazans.
As far as Israel not working with the Palestinians that is a false assumption. The Israelis and Palestinians tried the Oslo Accords. Arafat saw what happened to Rabin and walked away.
Such an accord can happen again.
But now only with people even braver than Rabin and more intelligent than Arafat. But since that is what it will take I have had it in my daily prayers for two decades or so.
d fb
Israeli politics are taking a radical turn away from Netanyahu as this passes. Hamas and its ilk may be out of the picture. Both were pushing each other. The US is different than other western democracies. The US has a different sort of decisiveness in some areas and much less so in other areas.