Talking only for myself, gods and religion are deeply imbedded in human culture. Searching for an escape is no easy matter. My wartime experiences put gods and religion at odds with goodness. This required a solution which I searched for for decades, shifting back and forth. Ayn Rand changed the perspective. “Self respect or submission?” Submission lost! Submission will continue losing as you might have noticed. 
The Captain
It’s true, religion and government are at odds with goodness when they are coercive and serve the elite few, which is too often the case.
But both can bring people together for community, altruism, and collective fairness.
Everything’s a balance, and we’re tilting dangerously in favor of the elite.
God is about belief, as in, "Do you believe in God?
As to the existence of god,
falls on the claimant
The Captain
I agree. And, “Do you NOT believe in god” is subject to proof, too.
The fallacy of induction: “every swan I’ve seen is white, therefore, there are no black swans” is false.
Just because I have not seen a god does not prove there is no god.
That’s why I stay out of the argument. There’s no proving, either way.
Besides the near impossibility of proving a negative (!), the oft-cited aphorism “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence” has always fit the idea of religions. One can have “faith” in a lot of things, but faith alone is basically what religions demand of us.
Pete
Not believing in a god/goddess is simply a declaration of one’s belief and opinion.
Saying “there are no gods” is a different story. As is saying “the evidence of the existence of god/goddess is inconclusive”.
…is inconclusive, both for or against gods and goddesses.
So, since they can’t, no one has to prove anything. They can believe anything they want. I don’t care.
As long as they don’t try to make it fly.
So there are referees?
Her knowing business is irrelevant. Eddie Lampert’s approach would have had similar effects even if the business was flourishing. By creating an atmosphere we’re divisions only act in their self-interest, it’s inevitable that they’ll turn on one another.
I’m no expert when it comes to Ayn Rand, but I’d wager that most of her proponents have a very limited understanding of what she actually believed. Instead, they use their warped understanding of her “philosophy” as a justification for their own selfish greed.
No umpires, no referees. There is a Race Committee that organizes the race, manages the flags, and fires the starting gun. They make sure no yacht starts early. If one or more do, they signal and the early yachts can go back and do a proper start. At the finish line the Race Committee notes the order of arrival and if it’s a handicap race, notes the arrival times. That’s it unless there is a protest and the protest flag was flown. In this case the Protest Committee hears the protest and makes a judgment. If a yacht broke a rule it is disqualified. I took part in several Protest Committees and gained respect for trial lawyers.
The first time I raced in a Star we were disqualified by the Protest Committee that ruled we had broken a right of way rule. Suffer and learn!
You are welcome to your biases.
The Captain
Fine, but eldemonio didn’t address the statement but rather fell back on an ad hominem attack.
DB2
“Belief” and “dis-Belief” in “deities” is simply a muddle of modernity reflecting back on inherited modes of comprehension. Doctrinaire Marxists were/are quite definitely theists (albeit of a modern sort) as they BEGIN their discussions with something like (flyerboys goes into a reverie of remembrance) a profound ponderful in-out puff on pipe, then a deep breath with a quasi-mystical roll of the idiot Section Leader Teaching Assistant’s eyes as he proclaims the almighty existence of DIALECTIC PROCESS underlying, uhmmm, everything in the universe! (flyerboys leaves the room to barf and drop that economics course).
Because at least our languages, cultures, and quite possibly also our hard wired evolved brain function are deeply based on cause and effect, on chains of causality, we inevitable find ourselves consciously or unconsciously positing a “prime mover” or “primordial mystical egg” or whatever.
I do not mind religions, in fact i find most of them wonderful beautiful and even useful, at least until they put on airs like that idiot section head.
End of Rant
Fine, I’ll answer your question.
I think it’s complicated. Does belief in an all powerful supernatural being necessarily mean someone has no self-respect? No.
Are there people who continue to make the same mistake over and over, praying for some omnipotent supernatural being to fix their problems? Yes. That certainly displays a lack of self-respect.
In my opinion, beliefs do not dictate self-esteem / self-respect on their own. Actions in accordance with a foundational set of ethics / principles are what matter.
Got it, no referee or umpire except the Ministry of Races, I mean, Race Committee.
That’s simply a demonstration that there are times and places you must put yourself first to be able to help others. As I’m sure you well know, if you don’t put your oxygen mask on first, you are going to become incapacitated and require someone to help you.
Carry the situation forward, and the plane suffers a hard landing, requiring the passengers to evacuate quickly. Those trying to help others will get those people off the plane first before getting themself off the plane. Other helpers may stay close to the bottom of the evacuation slides, assisting others to get up and move away while themselves staying closer to the plane and the hazards that presents.
In one case, the “decent person” helps himself first so that he can help others. In the other case, the “decent person” exposes himself to dangers so that he can help others first.
Always putting yourself first is just as wrong as always putting others before yourself. There is no one size fits all answer here. It takes thinking and discernment to decide what each situation calls for.
–Peter
A “Ministry of Races” would force you to race. The Race Committee just organizes races for those who wish to race.
Just a minor difference. Insignificant really. We all love authority, to be told what to do or else.
The Captain
This is an active discussion, which we all appreciate to sharpen our minds, but it has gone off subject.
Please watch the video in the original post and pass it on so others may understand how we’ve gotten so financially and societally divided.
It was planned, and if we aren’t vigilant it will continue, and lead to worse circumstances for us all.
Best of luck to everyone.
I watched it. Nothing really surprising. I was hoping for more “Here’s how we take it back!” messaging.
I also read the Powell Memo -
https://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1000&context=powellmemo
It’s interesting, under the Relationship to Freedom section of the memo, Powell writes…
“We in America already have moved very far indeed toward some aspects of state socialism, as the needs and complexities of a vast urban society require types of regulation and control that were quite unnecessary in earlier times. In some areas, such regulation and control already have seriously impaired the freedom of both business and labor, and indeed of the public generally. But most of the essential freedoms remain: private ownership, private profit, labor unions, collective bargaining, consumer choice, and a market economy in which competition largely determines price, quality, and variety of the goods and services provide the consumer.”
I wonder what Powell would say about our current climate where greedy corporations and monopolies bust unions, fix prices, and deny service…
Powell came across a bit whiny in his memo. Boohoo, the leftists are destroying business!
“God is a comedian who plays to an audience too afraid to laugh.”
~ Voltaire
DB2
I did start to watch the video but it is outdated rhetoric. The modern way to look at the problem is through the eyes of Complex Systems. Very briefly, Complex Systems evolve in unpredictable ways, in unpredictable directions. Someone stumbles on a new way to profit and that new way takes root and propagates. Stuart Kauffman, my favorite Complexity Scientist, calls it, “The adjacent possible.” This is how the Universe evolved from the Big Bang to the Present. What worked survived, what did not work, died. All it took was billions of years and ten to the billion particles.
The situation is not hopeless. We have two choices
I take individual action whenever I can. Collective action is more government at a high cost or mobs with pitchforks.
There are many well meaning fixers such as Karl Marx who just amplify the problem.
Just this morning my individual action in dealing with healthcare was justified by a doctor on uTube.
BTW, my home test is a bathroom scale, I try to stay close to 70 Kgs. I started down this path sometime near 70 years of age. I wonder how much money I saved by not visiting doctors, not taking tests, and not taking medications and supplements these past 15 years. Why do I mention money? Because “the video in the original post” is about money, how the nasties keep us poor. They have no power over our healthcare. They do want us to spend fortunes on healthcare and insurance as well as on social security taxes non of which are all that good for our health.
Let the Healthcare Industrial Complex sue me!
The Captain
I would argue that a lot more can be gaurunteed on that day, depending on where you were born and to who.
Born in a slum in bangledesh? Parents illiterate and with no savings. Gaurunteed that you end up working in a high labor low pay field before you finish substantial schooling to support your family and not much else
Born in an american suburb to parents that own property? Youre gaurunteed a much different life. Will probably not be malnourished. Will likely not be homeless. Will be literate. Will probably graduate hs. Will probably be disease free by 18. Will probably never be a victum of violent crime. Will likely have multiple job opportunities throughout youre life in various fields with various opportunities for upward mobility.
So yes the system you are born into does a VAST impact on how youre life turns out and the opportunities you are given. We are not all dealt the samw hand or even from the same deck of cards.
So no i dont think its a waste of time to discuss the system and environment (economic, social, etc) that we want to create for future generation. And each of us im sure has an ideal version of america in their heads (except maybe you captain, i think you abandoned the ship for greener pastures, no?) And the nature of democracy is that we discuss this.
I am a bit put off by ppl so eager to dismiss every factor that has contributed to their success and attribute it all to themselves - and use that as an excuse to dismiss any attempt to make the world a better place. Humility is in such short supply these days