While I only know surface level about Ayn Rand (did read *Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal some 30 years ago) I don’t know why this seems to be raised as some kind of contradiction. If you are forced to contribute to something that you think is a bad system, why wouldn’t you collect it?
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To make sure your enemies have less ammunition to attack you?
The Captain
Do you know what Andrew Carnegie’s first job was?
Carnegie’s first job in 1848 was as a bobbin boy changing spools of thread in a cotton mill 12 hours a day, 6 days a week in a Pittsburgh cotton factory.
Do you know where Kash Patel came from?
He is the son of Pramod Patel, a Ugandan of Indian descent who was among those who faced ethnic persecution and were expelled by Ugandan dictator Idi Amin in 1972. They started a motel business.
So many wonderful stories about people with get-go chasing and catching the American Dream. Sorry to hear that these people put you off.
The Captain
ALERT! This is post 42 of this thread. A great number to end it on!
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Hence my “duh”.
Pete
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I am shocked, shocked, that it appears no-one has posted the Scrabble scene from the Beeb’s TV series.
Steve
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We’re still awaiting feedback from the mice!
Pete
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History shows that the only reason we humans got to where we are today through collaboration. Captain, you come across as a person who only cares about himself, and are desperately trying to find a way to make that virtuous of you.
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And my grandparents worked on a rice field in india that they didnt own. India gained independence. Caste system was outlawed (prejudice still exists of course) Schooling was made mandatory for boys and girls. My parents were the first to go to school much less college. They immigrated to the us for their phds. My dad, at the univeristy of wyoming (the only american school that accepted him) happened to be matched with a PI who was working with a new tech not fully realized yet, PCR. Dumb luck. Then as one of the few people that knew how to make use of this he was then recruited to harvard for his postdoc - which again changed our lives. My parents were the beneficiaries of improving conditions and a system that allowed for upward mobility, and of course their own hard work was required to make use of this. Plenty of my family in their generation didnt reach the same level of success.
I was fortunate to be born to them in the us and get the opportunity to go to medical school. Did i work hard? Sure, i guess. But not as hard as them or thier parents. Not by a large stretch.
I think its dumb to think that any of this happens in a vacuum or thats its all due to grit and hard work. A good large portion of it is dumb luck and taking advantage of the opportunities when they present themselves. And i bet if you were to delve into any of the success stories you put out there youd see that to be true. It could have just as easily been a disaster story. In fact more often than not thats what happens, you just dont write those up in the paper or hear about them. And the more wealthy you are the more opportunities you get, whether you waste them or use them is up to you. The poor and those born to worse circumstances get far fewer opportunities and need to hit a lot of them to suceed, there is less margin for error. There are plenty of people that do everythjng right and work just as hard as my parents, grandparents, kash patel or carniegie or anyone else that you want bring up that didnt get those one or two lucky breaks and suffered for it.
We are fools who celebrate a few individual successes to justify the sufferring of the masses, or use it as a reason for institutional inertia when constant incremental improvements are warranted
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I don’t want to take away from your point, but I think you’re mistaken. Kash’s pops hired on as the CFO of a global aircraft bearings distribution company when they moved to the US. Pretty humble roots…
Sure, there are some very successful and wealthy people who came from nothing. There are exponentially more who were born with a silver spoon in their mouth.
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Well said. And thank you for sharing your family’s story. To achieve that rare success and remain humble and charitable is admirable.
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You are most welcome to your views.
Maybe we have different points of view. I was thinking about why we have such divergent points of view. It could be age, not because of age but because we were born into different social settings.
In my days we gave out cups and medals to achievers. Now we give out participation trophies which I find utterly repulsive. Give it some thought. I could expand on this issue but you would just sweep it under the rug claiming “desperately trying to find a way to make that virtuous of you.”
Up to this point you post was excellent, spot on!
Who, exactly, is celebrating the suffering of the masses, for any reason?
The Captain
I may be wrong, but I think you misunderstand. The suggestion isn’t that people are celebrating the suffering of the masses, but rather that their focused on celebrating their own individual successes and don’t care that others are suffering. Some take it further with their zero sum mentality - “In order for me to win, others must lose”.
I think it all comes down to a sense of self. Some people have a very limited sense of self that only includes their existence. Others include their family, their community, their city, state, country. Some overachievers include all of humanity in their sense of self.
I had an epiphany when I was a young punk while looking at Saturn through a telescope. I may or may not have been under the influence…
I thought about the possibility that another being could very well be looking at Earth at that exact moment. What would they see? They’d see our planet, looking closer, they may see signs of civilization. They would most certainly not see me. At that point I realized I was part of something much bigger than myself. That was the point in my life when my sense of self dramatically expanded.
Here’s what Ayn Randers don’t understand - Because of their expanded sense of self, altruistic people may view their altruism as self-interest.
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Exactly. Helping others helps ourselves.
Maybe the incentive for helping others can be acclaim and community, an expansive view, rather than money and power, which are a zero sum game.
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It is the global shell game of who gets supply side econ and who gets demand side econ in the cycle. No country gets demand side econ for more than 40 years including the overlaps of the two parts of the cycle.
Be nice if the US only had demand side econ. I get the complaints. It is unrealistic to expect that.
I wish the Fool who posted the assertion would answer my question.
You can demand all you want, if there is no supply you are not going to get any.
Robinson Crusoe landed on an island with no supply beyond what nature offered. If he wanted more he had to create it himself.
Demand side economics is enabled by suppliers. Ayn Rand painted the scenario of what happens when the suppliers go on strike.
Who is John Galt?
The Captain
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Has anybody here read a book called, “Braiding Sweetgrass”?
Munchausen’s by proxy?
Communal Narcissist Personality Disorder?
ralph
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You misunderstand.
Supply side economics production falls.
Demand side economics production rises.