Hydrogen: Mission Improbable

Bob,

As usual your sources are dressed up BS’ers. People who misuse their education as if their pensions depend on it. Using hydrogen does not mean giving up that much space for cargo.

The Wrightbus Streetdeck H2 FCEV hydrogen double-decker buses in Dublin can accommodate up to 79 passengers. These buses are 11.5 meters long and are designed with accessibility in mind

  • Volvo: Some Volvo buses in the Dublin Bus fleet have 78–81 seats, while others have 88 or 95 seats

  • Wrightbus: Some Wrightbus buses in the Dublin Bus fleet have 37 seats NOTE this is not correct. See below

  • Bombardier: Some Bombardier buses built for CIÉ in the 1980s had 72 seats, with 45 seats in the upper saloon and 27 in the lower saloon
    The length of a Dublin Bus varies by manufacturer and model, but some examples include:

  • Volvo: 621 buses that are 10.5 meters long

  • Wrightbus: 2 buses that are 10.2 meters long
    The number of seats on a Wrightbus depends on the model and configuration of the bus:

  • Wrightbus GB Kite Electroliner: This single-deck bus has a total passenger capacity of 80, with 40 seats.

  • Wright StreetLite: This bus has a seating capacity of 33–45 passengers, depending on the length of the bus.

  • Wright Eclipse SchoolRun: The first 110 buses had 66 seats, while the latter 50 had 62 seats.

  • Wright StreetDeck: The diesel version of this bus has 73 seats, while the converted version has 68 seats. The StreetDeck Hydroliner FCEV, the double-decker version of the Kite, can accommodate up to 90 passengers.

  • Double-decker bus: On average, a double-decker bus can seat 60–80 passengers.

The above is wrong because it is not the streetlite but street deck busses.

The three WrightbusStreetdeck Hydrogen FCEVs have been purchased by the NTA to decarbonise its operations and will go into service next week on Bus Éireann’s route 105X, which runs between Dublin and Ratoath, County Meath.

Let me know when the buses start flying.

To understand the potential impact of switching from traditional jet fuel to hydrogen fuel in aviation, Anna Cybulsky, Mallapragada and colleagues modeled its use in the electrification of regional and short-range turboprop aircraft.

DB2

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Hydrogen has too many intrinsic problems.

Expensive to make, Low energy density, Highly Inflammable and Hard to compress, liquified version needs cryogenic storage.
Add to this the massive capital and infrastructure costs required to store and transport.

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When comparing the weight of hydrogen to jet fuel, hydrogen is significantly lighter per unit of energy; meaning, for the same amount of energy, hydrogen would weigh considerably less than jet fuel, with a weight factor roughly around 3 times lighter than jet fuel; however, due to its low density, storing enough hydrogen for an aircraft would require much larger tanks, impacting the overall weight of the aircraft.

Key points about the weight factor of hydrogen vs jet fuel:

  • Higher energy density per mass:

Hydrogen has a much higher energy density per unit mass compared to jet fuel, meaning less hydrogen is needed to produce the same amount of energy.

  • Lower volumetric density:

Despite its high energy density per mass, hydrogen has a much lower volumetric density, meaning it takes up significantly more space than jet fuel for the same amount of energy.

  • Impact on aircraft design:

The need for larger hydrogen storage tanks due to its low density can significantly increase the weight of an aircraft, even though the fuel itself is

To store hydrogen gas in less space, “Type III” and “Type IV” hydrogen tanks are used, which are made with composite materials like carbon fiber and have a much higher storage density compared to traditional metal tanks, allowing for smaller and lighter cylinders to store the same amount of hydrogen at high pressure; essentially taking up less space in a vehicle or application.

Key points about space-efficient hydrogen tanks:

  • Composite materials:

These tanks utilize carbon fiber wrapped around a metallic liner, providing high strength while maintaining a lightweight design.

  • Type III vs. Type IV:

While both are considered space-efficient, Type IV tanks typically have a slightly higher storage density due to using a polymer liner instead of a metal one, making them even more compact.

  • High pressure storage:

To maximize hydrogen density, these tanks operate at very high pressures, usually around 700 bar (10,000 psi)

To achieve the same energy content as one unit of jet fuel, you would need roughly three times the volume of hydrogen compressed at 700 bar due to hydrogen’s significantly lower energy density per unit volume compared to jet fuel; meaning, a 700 bar hydrogen tank would need to be about three times larger than a jet fuel tank to store the same amount of energy.

Key points to remember:

  • Lower energy density:

Hydrogen has a much lower energy density than jet fuel, even when compressed to high pressures like 700 bar.

  • Volume comparison:

To match the energy of a given volume of jet fuel, you would need a much larger volume of hydrogen at 700 bar.

  • Liquefaction for higher density:

To further increase hydrogen’s energy density, it can be liquefied, but this requires additional energy and complex infrastructure.

Yes, when storing hydrogen at 700 bar pressure, commercial jets would likely need to be larger due to the significantly larger tank volume required to store the same amount of energy compared to traditional jet fuel, even though the high pressure increases hydrogen’s density considerably; this is because hydrogen still has a much lower energy density per unit volume than jet fuel, meaning more space is needed to store the equivalent energy.

Key points to consider:

  • Low energy density:

Hydrogen has a much lower energy density than jet fuel, meaning a larger volume of hydrogen is needed to produce the same amount of energy.

  • High pressure storage:

Compressing hydrogen to 700 bar significantly increases its density, but it still requires a larger tank volume compared to jet fuel.

  • Impact on aircraft design:

To store enough hydrogen for a long-range flight at 700 bar, aircraft designs would likely need to incorporate larger fuel tanks, potentially requiring a larger fuselage or modifications to the wing structure.

Alternative approaches:

  • Liquid hydrogen:

Storing hydrogen as a liquid could potentially reduce the tank volume needed, but requires additional cryogenic systems to maintain the low temperature.

  • New aircraft designs:

Developing new aircraft designs like blended-wing body configurations could potentially better integrate large hydrogen tanks while minimizing the overall aircraft size increase.

Are you saying electric motor turning a propeller? Cannot be as fast as a jet engine.

Will hydrogen work as a jet fuel? Who is developing a jet engine to use hydrogen as a fuel?

In comparison to jet fuel.

Okay now

Their work was not focused on jets but rather turboprops.

“Anna Cybulsky, Mallapragada and colleagues modeled its use in the electrification of regional and short-range turboprop aircraft.”

DB2

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