Making the most regressive state in the union more regressive

Investment Analysis Clubs Macro Economic Trends and Risks
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The recent post about states with regressive tax regimes showed that Michigan is only the 34th most regressive, while a particular swampy state is the most regressive state in the nation.

What else can the swampy state do, to hurt working people, for the benefit of the “JCs” more?

A newly enacted Florida law, effective July 1, bars cities and counties in the state from imposing their own heat-protection rules on businesses, as Miami-Dade County officials had considered last year…( Phoenix is the latest hotspot to enact a heat protection standard, requiring city contractors to provide cool water and shaded or air-conditioned rest areas for outdoor workers beginning this month. The city experienced temperatures of 110 degrees or higher on 55 days in 2023, according to the National Weather Service.)

…the new Florida law also blocks local ordinances related to employee scheduling, sometimes called “fair workweek” laws, such as those passed in cities such as Chicago, Los Angeles, New York, and Seattle. Florida joins at least 10 states in preempting those scheduling laws.

Those laws generally require large employers of hourly workers, such as big-box retailers and chain restaurants, to give workers their shift schedules two weeks in advance and pay them extra for any last-minute schedule changes.

But wait! There’s more! The swampy state has also invalidated local minimum wage ordinances that exceed the state minimum.

The law will negate Orlando’s Responsible Contractor Policy, which requires businesses with city contracts worth at least $100,000 to pay workers at least $15 per hour. The city opposed the bill.

Care to defend allowing employers to require workers to work in summer Florida heat, with no water or cooldown breaks, Murph? :slight_smile:

Steve

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Remove the AC from the Gov mansion–and the legislative buildings. Also remove all electricity. Take out their electrical distribution boxes.

Let’s see how long it takes for them to figure out their problem…

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The good news is you all are talking about this. The bad news is that you fell for the political bent of the article instead of the substance of the law.

The bill’s analysis dives deeper into the decision to regulate heat exposure protections, saying the Occupational Safety and Health Administration has developed the best practices over the years. It adds that recognizing that preventing heat-related illnesses “requires education and close collaboration between employers and employees.”

The law is about using OSHA (federal) guidelines by default and not to subvert them (maybe improperly) through local codes and ordinances.

“Whereas local governments have started to adopt their own workplace heat exposure requirements, some of which apply only to specific industries, which ignore the individual responsibility of an employee to follow relevant guidelines and to protect himself or herself from heat-related illnesses, and rely on fines and penalties assessed on employers to fund the enforcement of such requirements.”

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Translation: lowest common denominator, that may not be adequate for local conditions.

With all due respect, that is a pile of meadow muffins. If the employee says he needs to take a break and cool off, and the “JC” says “shut up and work, or I’ll find someone who will”, what is the employee supposed to do? Quit on the spot and look for another job? Without a union backing him up, the employee has no option in “at will employment”.

Steve

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700k moved in during 2022, 500k moved out. Those 500k generally had to work and were not retired.

No one has to take care of fat behinds in a nursing home on the cheap.

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In today’s job market an employee can quit today and probably have 3 other job offers by tomorrow.

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There is no federal law to protect workers from heat related illness. Only 5 states have laws, and 2 of the 5 don’t cover all workers. The federal OSHA law was proposed in 2021, so only 10-15 years before anything gets promulgated.

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If there are federal, state or local laws to protect workers then the problem is solved.

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But the “JCs” will be “burdened”. The “L&Ses” in Tallahassee apparently figure the “JCs” need to be protected from Commie local governments that would “burden” them.

If the employee works in an area where most of the “JCs” operate the same way, treating employees as expendable meat, whose only function in life is to be expended making the “JC” richer, everywhere the employee goes, he will be treated the same.

Steve

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They all should do without AC or fans (no electricity). There is no “heat protection” for those fake JCs or legislators/bureaucrats, so don’t give them any (heat protection). If they don’t like it, they can LEAVE.

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OSHA does not have specific regulations for environmental heat exposure123. However, employers are required to provide outdoor workers with fresh water, access to shade at 80 degrees, cool-down rest breaks, and maintain a written prevention plan with training on the signs of heat illness and what to do in case of an emergency4. OSHA recommends that indoor temperatures be between 68 and 76 degrees Fahrenheit and humidity, between 20 and 60 percent15. OSHA’s General Duty Clause requires employers to be aware of and remove recognizable hazards that are likely to cause serious harm or death to their workers3.
osha laws on heat - Search (bing.com)

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[quote=“gcr2016, post:11, topic:104211”]
[OSHA’s General Duty Clause requires employers to be aware of and remove recognizable hazards that are likely to cause serious harm or death to their workers][/quote]
The employers will have to be removed from the company, plus the legislators removed from office. Federal law trumps them all. Nothing the states or employers can do about federal law.

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Appreciate the ongoing support of the little guy.

OSHA-NIOSH is to be respected and carefully supported when guidelines are clear. Violations of any or part of these conditions expose your JCs to strict fines and extra scrutiny.

Exposure to Outdoor and Indoor Heat‑Related Hazards (osha.gov)

The law simply states: Follow the procedures and guidelines from the Federal Regulatory Body.

Now, since everybody is incompetent, your response should always be “not good enough”. I respect that.

I also respect a process where somebody (in this case, a state) attempts to remove unintentional wiggle room, intentional or unintentional incompetence and their attendant effects by standardizing the rules to a simple set of definitions.

I hear you: “not good enough! cast down the JCs!”

I suggest that simplifying rules not only reduces costs, it also clarifies the defining events such that criminal and incompetent actions can be better exposed, interrogated, remedied and, if actions are found insufficient, fines issued.

“Plea for the little guy! It won’t bring Johnny back!”

You’re right. Employee and employer responsibilities will never be second to any law, local or federal.

In this way, “letting” a city or county decide what’s best for “on the ground” conditions in a vacuum doesn’t really add anything but more confusion. This is especially true for regional and multisite work forces which may run afoul of some sub paragraph of local codes.

Did you know that Disney has had a strict requirement for it’s character actors to have 15 minutes on as a limit with at least 15 minutes off when weather is severe (HOT)?

This is far more restrictive than any state or federal law. Guess what? Who cares. They manage their practices, OSHA audits, and the show goes on.

Here’s some data. (HINT: Search for “heat”)

List of incidents at Walt Disney World - Wikipedia

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The key point is simple: Disney recognizes the need for its employees to be able to do their jobs. Having a shorter duration for the workers to be in a high-stress position is a major boost for Disney–and their employees (at all levels) very likely appreciate it very much.

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Thanks for the reply.

The breaks, water, and shade you reference are mandated by California, Washington, and Oregon. Employers outside of these states are not legally required to do any of those things across all industries. That’s why Federal OSHA uses “should” instead of “shall” for their recommendations.

That said, Federal OSHA has implemented a NEP (National Emphasis Program). This provides guidance on policies and procedures to eliminate or reduce exposure to occupational heat-illness. It applies to construction, agriculture, maritime, and general industry. It’s set to expire in April of 2025, hopefully the proposed standard will be reviewed and approved by then…but don’t hold your breath.

https://www.osha.gov/sites/default/files/enforcement/directives/CPL_03-00-024.pdf

The guidance instructs CSHOs to cite the General Duty Clause, as there’s no specific heat-related illness standard. That clause is a weak enforcement tool. Any safety professional will tell you that, lawyers would as well.

If the General Duty Clause was easy to enforce, it would be the only safety standard needed to protect workers.

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That’s a really long-winded way of saying “Whereas, we’re all a bunch of a$$holes in Florida”.

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The reg in California, linked above, has specific requirements:

*Water – Provide drinking water that is fresh, pure, suitably cool and free of charge so that each worker can drink at least 1 quart per hour, and encourage workers to do so.

*Rest – Encourage workers to take a cool-down rest in the shade for at least five minutes when they feel the need to do so to protect themselves from overheating.

*Workers should not wait until they feel sick to cool down.

Shade – Provide proper shade when temperatures exceed 80 degrees. Workers have the right to request and be provided shade to cool off at any time.

You know what a “JC” would say about that:

-a quart of cooled, bottled, water, free, to every worker, every hour? That would hurt my profits.

-Let them lay around whenever they want, on my dime? More of my profit gone!

Realistically, some people will abuse the rest breaks. Over the years, I had plenty of coworkers who figured they could work at half speed all day.

To be workable, there would need to be a set schedule, based on heat and humidity, so everyone can take a break at a regular interval, without abusing the breaks.

But the Shinies in Florida think it’s better to leave everything to the “JCs”. We know what the “JC” attitude is: “shut up and work, or you will be replaced”.

Ever watch “Forged in Fire” on TV? They have an EMT on the set, to patch up cuts and burns, and to watch for heat exhaustion, because it gets insanely hot on the shop floor. I have seen several contestants, usually older, overweight ones, be taken off the floor by the EMT, sat down in a cool room, provided with plenty of fluids and O2. I saw one guy get carted off to the hospital.

If you have never seen “Forged in Fire”, here is a sample, including a moment of an older, overweight guy, who the heat got to. DefyTV, over the air, binges it on Fridays.

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LOLOL.
I’ve a friend from long ago, who moved from one hot, strenuous job to a centrifugal casting foundry.
I used to go over late in the evening and watch them work.
I got to know the owners, too. As long as I didn’t get in the way, they were ok with me hanging around. I would pass by briefly, maybe once a month, and I was careful to stay back away from the “action”.

“Hot and dangerous” describe that job.
The owners worked alongside their workers. They all took care of each other.
They were very much a team.

The guys at the foundry took a perverse pleasure in how much they sweated, and the tough difficult conditions they endured.

Every summer, in the July/August TX midday heat, I see crews on roof tops, either a new build, or hail damaged, or replacement roof. Often these are very steeply pitched.
Hot in the blazing TX sun. Dangerous on those roofs.
There are also yard maintenance crews, working in the midday TX heat.

These workers are always hustling.
I see these crews at the local food joints (I go to local Mexican restaurants), and convenience stores.
I never see/hear them complain.
Can you guess their skin color.

These guys are paid by the job. The more jobs, the more pay per week/month.
They don’t slow down. And the crew doesn’t tolerate “slow”.

I’m not impressed by the “trailer” people being forged in fire. I don’t think any of the folks I described above, would be impressed, either.

:joy:
ralph is very happy to be free from such work.

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I’m calling major BS on this one. I started doing industrial health and safety right out of the gate. The North Star rule of H&S is you have to remove the worker from safety decision making.

For example, the rule isn’t
Wear a hard hat whenever a reasonable person would anticipate a risk of head injury.

The rule is:
Wear a hard hat on the jobsite.

The rule isn’t:
The worker should always exercise extra caution when working near ledges

The rule is:
Handrails shall be provided.

Worker doesn’t get a choice.

When they are saying leave it up to the employees they are really saying they don’t care about safety.

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It’s consistent regressive policy trying to take things back to the good ol’ days.

Good companies will continue to protect their workers. Bad actors will put their employees at risk. OSH laws are in place to regulate the latter. Not unlike any other law we have.