I noticed literally anyone in China with a cell phone had their WeChat app. Our daughter used it exclusively to video chat with us back here in the states. Was far superior to Skype or Apple FaceTime.
I have an assortment of apps that I use, this is from highest to lowest:
Whatsapp - mostly text, sometimes for calls. the majority of friends have it as well as some of my family
WeChat - My Wife is Chinese and we do not live in the same country, so we mostly use this
Line - a couple of friends are here and not using other apps
Viber - it works well for a few friends and sometimes also use to call my wife
Skype - I keep credit on skpye so use it to dial phone numbers in the US if I need to as I am mostly never in the US
iMessage/phone text - mostly to retrieve a log in code for bank or website
Facetime - only used it once to make an audio call to a friend that had no other apps installed.
FB messenger sucks and I don’t have FB installed on my phone.
You might take another look. It gives a much better picture, voice, and overall experience than Skype. Saul
I use Skype in a different manner, I use it to actual dial phone numbers to make overseas calls to the US. Maybe once a year I need to top up a $25 credit so I can actually place phone calls from Singapore or Europe back to the US which is mostly from my computer.
Exactly Saul. But if you buy a share of BABA it sure seems like you just bought a share of Ali Baba. You have to do significant due diligence in order to determine you have a share (or several of them) is a shell, holding entity that has no direct ownership interest in the company Ali Baba. The value of a share of BABA is correlated to the valuation of the company Ali Baba. It is a bond of trust, not performance.
These are all companies listed in US and follow strict SEC requirement.
This is not true. Chinese law precludes following SEC rules to some extent, but that’s not even the primary issue. Even if PWC is their accountant, the accounting firm that certifies the books is bound by accepting the bookkeeping of the firm. If the record inventory of such and so, then that’s the inventory. If they recognize revenue when the purchase agreement is signed rather than when they receive payment of an invoice (or progress payments or a hundred other wrinkles related to accounting for revenue) then that’s the revenue, etc.
Not every accounting aberration is a willful act of deception, in many cases it’s standard practice in China, but it’s not the same as US practices. So, yes, ADRs for Chinese companies provide GAAP reporting requirements, but the underlying record keeping methods are different.
Don’t confuse technology with investment quality. My wife is Chinese. She’s tuned into Weixin (WeChat) virtually all her waking hours. She doesn’t have a FB account because none of her friends hold FB accounts. A lot of Chinese social media technology is better and more user friendly than offerings from FB, LinkdIn, etc. That doesn’t make Tencent, Ali Baba, Baidu and so forth good investments.
Frankly, I’m baffled as to why folks invest in Chinese companies. There are so many investment opportunities in companies where accounting practices are not high up on the risks that must be accepted but can’t be measured.
Brittlerock (who lives half the year in China with his Chinese wife, and has some experience from which he speaks, made three very cogent posts earlier on this thread. Here they are (with sentence structure slightly simplified).
You have to do significant due diligence in order to determine that what you have a share in is a shell holding entity that has no direct ownership interest in the company Ali Baba.
(In China) the accounting firm that certifies the books is forced to accept the bookkeeping of the company. If the company records inventory of such and so, then that’s what the accounting firm accepts. If the company recognizes revenue when the purchase agreement is signed rather than when they receive payment of an invoice, then that’s the revenue that the accounting company works with.
Not every accounting aberration is a willful act of deception, in many cases it’s standard practice in China, but it’s not the same as US practices. So, yes, ADRs for Chinese companies provide what is called “GAAP”, but the underlying record keeping methods are different.
Frankly, I’m baffled as to why folks invest in Chinese companies. There are so many investment opportunities in companies where accounting practices are not high on risks that must be accepted but can’t be measured.
I couldn’t say it better. That’s just part of why I don’t invest in Chinese companies. He didn’t mention all the intentional minor and major fraud, that is often accepted as standard business practice.
The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation Trust disclosed a 5% stake in the Templeton Dragon Fund (TDF), a closed-end fund that invests at least 45% of its total assets in the equity securities of “China companies."