OT: Evolution evolving

Do we need a new theory of evolution?
www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jun/28/do-we-need-a-new-the…
Strange as it sounds, scientists still do not know the answers to some of the most basic questions about how life on Earth evolved. Take eyes, for instance. Where do they come from, exactly?..“The first eye, the first wing, the first placenta. How they emerge. Explaining these is the foundational motivation of evolutionary biology,” says Armin Moczek, a biologist at Indiana University. “And yet, we still do not have a good answer. This classic idea of gradual change, one happy accident at a time, has so far fallen flat.”…

In 2014, eight scientists took up this challenge, publishing an article in the leading journal Nature that asked “Does evolutionary theory need a rethink?” Their answer was: “Yes, urgently.” Each of the authors came from cutting-edge scientific subfields, from the study of the way organisms alter their environment in order to reduce the normal pressure of natural selection – think of beavers building dams – to new research showing that chemical modifications added to DNA during our lifetimes can be passed on to our offspring.

The authors called for a new understanding of evolution that could make room for such discoveries. The name they gave this new framework was rather bland – the Extended Evolutionary Synthesis (EES) – but their proposals were, to many fellow scientists, incendiary.

DB2

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This is a nice article about new hypotheses and discoveries in the field of evolution. These are extensions, not paradigm shifts.

I wish the author didn’t feel the need to make it “exciting” by wasting so much print on “controversies.” Many science writers seem to feel that the clash of personalities is more interesting than the science itself.

The danger in any mainstream article about controversy among evolutionary biologists is that some “creationists” may use this as an excuse to say that the theory of evolution itself is not accepted by science. If only we could ignore that nonsense, but it’s unfortunately real.

Wendy

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I wish the author didn’t feel the need to make it “exciting” by wasting so much print on “controversies.” Many science writers seem to feel that the clash of personalities is more interesting than the science itself.

At the same time you would like to have a larger readership (to spread the ideas) than just science nerds.

DB2

I don’t think there is much controversy over the development of complex eye structures from primitive coelenterate eye spots through compound eyes in insects, etc. There is generally a lack of appreciation for the length of a billion years.

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I wish the author didn’t feel the need to make it “exciting” by wasting so much print on “controversies.” Many science writers seem to feel that the clash of personalities is more interesting than the science itself.

In journalism it’s called 'Human Interest." At the Caracas Journal the sports editor kept reminding me to include ‘human interest’ in my sailboat racing articles.

The Captain
Pablo Blanco, a graphic reporter, produced incredible human interest material. A client of mine asked my sailing partner to teach him the art of sailing. Pablo Blanco published a photo of a gorgeous blonde hanging from the backstay of his boat with the boat’s name clearly visible. During the week we had a meeting at his company, he threw the paper down on the conference table and said, “How the hell am I going to explain this to my wife?” The girl was my sailing partner’s sister in law. My client had to sell his sailboat and he bought a motor yacht instead that was to his wife’s liking.

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In journalism it’s called 'Human Interest."

I cannot find it now, but I remember a story about an editor at the New York Times who kept telling his reporters to include more human interest in their stories. One of them finally had enough, and put (something like) this on an internal bulletin board, back in the days when there were bulletin boards:

“It was another cloudless, uncomfortable day in Texas, the fourth or fifth that week, no one could remember exactly. In San Antonio office workers left for a leisurely lunch, and in Dallas people crowded onto the sidewalk. A mother played with her children, trying to keep the boredom at bay, while another boosted an infant into the air to the delight of the crowd. One man held a camera, another, with a newspaper tucked under his arm chatted amiably with a stranger. A murmur enveloped the crowd as the vehicles in the street sped by, and confusion became endemic when the onlookers realized that just moments before, the President had been shot.”

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when the onlookers realized that just moments before, the President had been shot.”

I wish I could recommend this more than once!

Just for fun, people should read back through the subjects on board posts to see which ones will make any sense to someone next year…or even next week

Mike

have a larger readership (to spread the ideas) than just science nerds.


Unfortunately, the line between “unexpected quantum leap happy accident” and miracle gets more blurry as the reader drifts further from scientific nerdom. “Faith” is simply an unprovable explanation for the unknown and part of the problem with evolution being universally accepted is that it flies in the face of it. The broader the readership, the more diluted the concept of evolution becomes.

Jeff

Do we need a new theory of evolution?

Don’t know! But history can tell us a lot about the Theory of Evolution. Just as with Galileo and the Pope there is a clash between science and faith. The main difference is that astronomy is simpler than biology or maybe our understanding of astronomy is greater than our understanding of biology. In the absence of proven facts the discussion becomes a clash of opinions that are supported more by status than by facts.

Why did Galileo delay the publication of his masterpiece? His wife went to church but he didn’t. The consensus seems to be that Darwin feared the wrath of the church.

From the article:

Behind the current battle over evolution lies a broken dream. In the early 20th century, many biologists longed for a unifying theory that would enable their field to join physics and chemistry in the club of austere, mechanistic sciences that stripped the universe down to a set of elemental rules. Without such a theory, they feared that biology would remain a bundle of fractious sub-fields, from zoology to biochemistry, in which answering any question might require input and argument from scores of warring specialists.

What the above says is that biologists have the same “physics envy” that classical economists have. They want the same clockwork simplicity except quantum theory has shown that physics has lots of complexity and uncertainty, and to top it off, observation changes the observed.

“If this were so, evolution would have hardly any meaning, and would not be going anywhere in particular,”

Why does nature have to have meaning?

Privately, he complained that anyone working outside the new evolutionary “party line” – that is, anyone who didn’t embrace the modern synthesis – was ostracised.

WOKISM isn’t new! Of course not. Burning heretics at the stake was a violent form of WOKISM. Settled science is WOKISM. And all of it is anti-science, the rule by the most vocal, the most charismatic, the most powerful.

The subject at hand is most definitively more about humans than about science. They might as well be discussing how many angels can dance of the head of a pin.

The Captain
has his own ideas about the subject. The universe is built like a layer cake, just like the WWW is a layer cake. There is a physical network of wires, optical cables, servers and other hardware. Photons and electrons traverse this physical network but under some man made protocol. At the lowest level it is about transmitting ones and zeros but these are arranged under some man made protocol. So it goes until an idea in your head arrives in other people’s heads. Do we need a unified theory of idea swapping?

Recently I heard a theory about why we don’t understand quantum mechanics, ‘because we are too big.’ According to my layer cake model, life is a higher level built on a physical level, built of a quantum level with many possible intermediate levels. Each level has its own laws because each has its own nature and constitution. Why should humans act like electrons?

Humans are collections of cells ordered and operating under the guidance of software that resides in our DNA. Does the DNA control our thoughts or are thoughts an emerging property of the collection of cells. The latter is the more likely. Layer upon layer upon layer

Who could have invented such a complex schema?

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I think you are right on our difficulty in understanding the lengths of time evolution occurs over.

Which sounds greater: a thousand million years, or a million thousand years?

Time is a difficult concept for us to deal with. We are closer in time to Cleopatra than Cleopatra was to the building of the Pyramids. We are closer in time to the last T-rex than the last T-Rex was to the first dinosaur. Deep time - geologic time requires a mental reset. Most people if they have any memories of their great grand parents, they are probably only have fleeting early childhood memories. At least that is true for me. That is only 3 generations back or 70-100 or so years from the time of those memories. Go back 10 generations (300 or so years) and we’re reading about that time in history books. Add another 0 to go back 100 generations and we are still in historic times for some civilizations, but in other parts of the world we are into archaeology and anthropology because there are no written records that can be read. 1,000 generations back and we are huddling around fires in caves. 10,000 generations back and we are working out the problems of tool making and wondering if it was a mistake to leave the trees. And that only takes about a third of the way back in time to our first million years of the 4,500 million years of Earth’s time.

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Do we need a new theory of evolution?

I have a different idea.

One of the reasons evolution is so poorly understood is that it isn’t taught in many, even most schools. And it’s not just “not taught”, but “not even mentioned”. Of course I live in Tennessee, home to the famous Scopes trial, but my reading leads me to believe that conditions aren’t so different in most of the so-called Conservative states. Teachers quite literally fear for their jobs if it comes up in the classroom.

There is, however, an opposing force doing all it can to shelve the idea - so you have one side silent, hoping against hope that the clarity of the theory will make itself apparent, and the other side deny, deny, denying it with every tool in the arsenal.

Now you have a process which takes minor iterations over a thousand, million, even billion years and you expect the unstudied to understand it?

Bah. What we need is more teaching, more in-depth teaching, and a resolve to push back against the forces of darkness whose kingdom is threatened by science. And, a willingness to understand that “we don’t know yet” is an acceptable answer to things that have not yet been figured out.

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Humans are collections of cells ordered and operating under the guidance of software that resides in our DNA. Does the DNA control our thoughts or are thoughts an emerging property of the collection of cells. The latter is the more likely. Layer upon layer upon layer

My recent study of the gut bacteria and how it operates leads me to believe that each human is more like a chaotic political entity and that the bacteria is really in control and we are just here for them.

Could it be that the galaxy is an entity that thinks it is in control and it is just here for us?

Is the universe an entity, and is just there for the galaxy?

Cheers
Qazulight (The morning sun is hid behind the clouds and the gulls are calling to each other on the pier out over the bay)

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I think you are right on our difficulty in understanding the lengths of time evolution occurs over.

There are also much more rapid changes.

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/01/220119135037.htm
Wild populations must continuously adapt to environmental changes or risk extinction. For more than fifty years, scientists have described instances of “rapid evolution” in specific populations as their traits (phenotypes) change in response to varying stressors. For example, Spanish clover has developed a tolerance for copper from the mine tailings in which it grows, and the horn size of Alberta bighorn sheep has decreased due to trophy hunting. But until now it hasn’t been possible to reach any overarching conclusions about how different factors (such as harvesting, climate change, invasive species, or pollution) shape this rapid (now called “contemporary”) evolution.

Building on earlier work, a McGill University-led team has created a massive new dataset of close to 7,000 examples of changing traits in various populations around the world, from house sparrows and gray wolves to freshwater snails and Canadian goldenrod…

We have come a long way from the old view of evolution as a slow process to the point where we are now realizing that everything is evolving all around us all the time,” says Andrew Hendry, a Professor of Biology at the Redpath Museum of McGill and the co-senior author on the paper recently published in Molecular Ecology.

DB2

For more than fifty years, scientists have described instances of “rapid evolution” in specific populations as their traits (phenotypes) change in response to varying stressors.

Memory mechanism allows plants to adapt to heat stress
www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/06/210610091025.htm
In a study published in Nature Communications, researchers from Nara Institute of Science and Technology have revealed that a family of proteins that control small heat shock genes enables plants to ‘remember’ how to deal with heat stress…

“Once plants have undergone mild heat stress, they become tolerant and can adapt to further heat stress. This is referred to as heat stress ‘memory’ and has been reported to be correlated to epigenetic modifications.” Epigenetic modifications are inheritable changes in the way genes are expressed, and do not involve changes in the underlying DNA sequences.

“We wanted to discover how plants retain a memory of environmental changes,” explains Toshiro Ito, senior author. “We examined the role of JUMONJI (JMJ) proteins in acquired temperature tolerance in response to recurring heat within a few days.”

DB2

Time is a difficult concept for us to deal with.

Indeed! What you are describing is time accelerating exponentially. Think about how difficult it is for many people to understand money increasing exponentially – compound interest. They say growth stocks are over valued, negating exponential growth.

Look at the 40 year Apple chart https://invest.kleinnet.com/bmw1/stats40/AAPL.html

The top chart is semi-log, the red line is the best fit line or average growth rate, 20.3%. Lots of volatility but it does not look all that scary. Now look at the middle chart, same data but a linear chart, the way most people think. It’s going to infinity, IMPOSSIBLE, over priced.

I have to thank Neil deGrasse Tyson for pointing out that all compound growth shown on linear charts show the hockey stick curve to infinity. It’s the wrong tool for the job. But people who want to scare the bejesus out of you will use it. Check out Hussman’s charts. LINEAR! But we talk about charts exponentially, X% growth which is an exponential, a compound interest.

https://www.hussmanfunds.com/comment/mc180201/
https://www.hussmanfunds.com/wp-content/uploads/comment/mc18…
upside down y axis: https://www.hussmanfunds.com/wp-content/uploads/comment/mc18…
https://www.hussmanfunds.com/wp-content/uploads/comment/mc18…
upside down y axis: https://www.hussmanfunds.com/wp-content/uploads/comment/mc18…

Ray Kurzweil has a good discussion about time accelerating in his book The Age of Spiritual Machines: When Computers Exceed Human Intelligence https://www.amazon.com/Age-Spiritual-Machines-Computers-Inte…

The Captain

Neil deGrasse Tyson
https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q…

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That was an interesting article. It is important to note that the biologists are arguing over the details. There is still no question about Darwin’s biggest, most important, and most controversial conclusion: Humans and chimps evolved from a common ancestor, now thought to be around 6-8 million years ago.

I’m a fan of Neil Shubin’s books on evolution and thoroughly enjoyed Some assembly required.

It is important to note that the biologists are arguing over the details. There is still no question about Darwin’s biggest, most important, and most controversial conclusion: Humans and chimps evolved from a common ancestor, now thought to be around 6-8 million years ago.

What is new in the last few decades is the appreciation of epigenetic changes that occur because of changes in the environment. Shades of Lamarck.

DB2

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I’ve been listening to Shadows of Our Forgotten Ancestors (by Ann Druyan and Carl Sagan) on YouTube while falling asleep at night. Fascinating stuff.

The Creationist (aka Intelligent Design) folks want the evolution folks to provide every little detail on evolution while “God did it” is supposed to be a sufficient explanation for the Creationists. Of course, a lot of us think God did it by using evolution. But we don’t discuss religion here, do we?

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“We have come a long way from the old view of evolution as a slow process to the point where we are now realizing that everything is evolving all around us all the time,” says Andrew Hendry

Geological time is slower than mammal time, which is slower than human time, which is slower than historical time, which is slower than industrial age time, which is slower than electronic age time. The faster things happen the faster evolution can happen.

Evolution is a consequence of environmental drivers. In complex systems they talk about evolving fitness landscapes or adaptive landscapes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitness_landscape

Back in Darwin’s time they though that evolution depended on the rate of random mutation but that is proving to be incorrect, mutations might enable evolution but the rate of change is driven by the environment. Mutations that are not helpful are discarded. Cockroaches are so well adapted that they have not “evolved” (much?) in 280 million years.

The Captain

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Evolution is a consequence of environmental drivers. In complex systems they talk about evolving fitness landscapes or adaptive landscapes

Captain,

I am a strong believer in adaptation - including behavioral adaptation to our changing environment.

If the pointy-headed politicians and environmental disciplinarians are unsuccessful in bringing down the global temperature or stopping global warming at less than 2 degrees celsius, it may be wise for people with brains and common sense to consider adapting to the new reality of a warming world.

Among the things we may consider doing sooner than later are the following:

  1. Planting massive forests, which absorb CO2 while producing oxygen, shade, and watershed protection.

  2. Building massive de-salination plants around the globe to provide clean, potable water for drinking and irrigation to every corner of the earth.

  3. Building massive irrigation networks for distributing de-salinized water to the great new forests across any part of the globe with land capable of growing trees.

  4. Buying land for seasonal settlements in Northern Canada, Siberia, and the upper reaches of Scandinavia.

  5. Utilizing clean natural gas whenever possible as a substitute for coal or oil.

  6. Utilizing clean (scrubbed emission) coal whenever necessary as a substitute for dirty coal or oil.

  7. Utilizing wind power wherever it is feasible.

  8. Utilizing solar power wherever it is feasible.

  9. Utilizing geothermal power wherever it is feasible.

  10. Utilizing hydropower wherever it is feasible.

  11. Building north-south clean passenger and freight train networks to enable trans-American “snowbirds” and populations all the way from Canada to South America to be able to MIGRATE SEASONALLY to and from cooler climates.

  12. Building north-south clean passenger and freight train networks to enable trans-European “snowbirds” and populations all the way from Scandinavia to South Africa to be able to MIGRATE SEASONALLY to and from cooler climates.

If the cockroach can adapt, then so can humans.

:wink:

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