Planned Obsolesence-Screwing of Consumer?

Investment Analysis Clubs Macro Economic Trends and Risks
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I was watching some car videos & are across this one about planned obesolesence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NiVgYr9DTE

He went into automobiles of course & collusion of light bulb manufacturers in the 1920’s. I remember the Volkswagen ads of the early 1960’s. They talked about Volkswagen reliability but said there was no need a a picture of the new model because it was exactly the same as the previous model. Of course Volkswagen is into the planned obsolescence game now. And of course Apples’s iPhone & iPads. He brings up the operating systems updates that slow the speed of older iPhones. Apple’s argument was that the updates were to prolong battery use between chargings. Perhaps true but it made users less satisfied with their iPhone model & likely led to a purchase of the current model.

The continuing upgrading of products leads to more mineral mining & resulting pollution. Also increased use of land for landfills. And the perpetual consumer on the treadmill buying stuff; many of the consumers utilizing credit & paying more due to interest.
If products were made better & the consumer not manipulated by manufacturers with advertising, planned obsolescence & in the case of Apple’s software updates perhaps people would not need to work a 40 hour week? Or perhaps work a 40 hour week but the need for a working career of 40 years is reduced to 30 or 20 years?

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tjscott0

I remember the Volkswagen ads of the early 1960’s.

I’m so old I remember VW requiring and getting deposits from buyers for their new VW. Kinda like Tesla’s scheme more recently. (Do they still require a deposit? Dunno.)

Back ‘then’, the Bug was the hot new thing, and people couldn’t get enough of them. Very fuel efficient, never mind the fact that gas was plenty cheap. On top of all that, they were reliable and inexpensive to maintain.

All that positive atmosphere surrounding an automobile emanating from a country that was our mortal enemy a mere 15 years hence.

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If products were made better

How exactly could Apple make the latest iPhone any “better”? Do you not want phones to get better? More powerful? Do more? Some call this planned obsolescence. I call it “making things continually better”.

You simply cannot support old hardware forever. Especially not when the updates are free. Then if you pay for continual support of old hardware people will say “no, not going to pay money to keep an old phone going when I can buy new”.

This isn’t a conspiracy people.

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If products were made better

How exactly could Apple make the latest iPhone any “better”? Do you not want phones to get better? More powerful? Do more? Some call this planned obsolescence. I call it “making things continually better”.

You simply cannot support old hardware forever. Especially not when the updates are free. Then if you pay for continual support of old hardware people will say “no, not going to pay money to keep an old phone going when I can buy new”.

This isn’t a conspiracy people.

We will have to disagree on that. Apple’s iPhone software updates imo were an egregious attempt to drive sales. They were fined by France:
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51413724

Who really needs a need iPhone every year? But that is the Apple business model. I hate the fact that iPhone batteries are inaccessible.

Manufacturers are making it more difficult to repair products.
They have no right to determine consumer behavior by restricting repair rights.
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-57744091
There is growing pressure on manufacturers around the world to allow consumers the right to repair their own devices.
There is growing rage among farmers in the US they cannot repair their own equipment, such as tractors

Tractor manufacturer John Deere is among those who opposed the idea, saying it posed a safety risk.
It has also been opposed by technology giants such as Amazon, Apple and Microsoft, which impose limits on who can repair phones and game consoles and say independent repair could affect the security and safety of devices.

the Alliance for Automotive Innovation, which represents General Motors, Fiat Chrysler and others, started a legal bid to block revisions to the law that would require expanded access to mechanical and electronic repair data.

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Who really needs a need iPhone every year? But that is the Apple business model. I hate the fact that iPhone batteries are inaccessible.

An iPhone 6S Plus can still use the latest iOS. It was released in September 2015. How much longer do you want Apple to support them?

I like the fact that the iPhone batteries are not easily accessible.

PSU

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An iPhone 6S Plus can still use the latest iOS. It was released in September 2015. How much longer do you want Apple to support them?

I like the fact that the iPhone batteries are not easily accessible.

PSU

Prior to owning an iPhone I liked the having the choice of picking up & installing a battery if needed.

I guessing you have the 6S. Just how good is the performance? There are many stories about the Apple software slowing old iPhone performance:
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=apple+software+update+slows+down+o…

I bought an iPhone in 5C in 2015 with 8GB memory. I got a deal on it. The software updates slow the app performance on my phone. But I could still make calls so kept it.
Last year I got the the SE iPhone with 64 GB memory & better cameras. Again I got a deal on it. If my 5C was functioning as it did when new I wouldn’t have upgraded.

At the cost of the iPhone I would want 10 year support. I likely won’t up grade iOS on the new phone. There is a decent change this will be my last cellphone.

Perhaps my expeditions are too high. After all I am still driving my 1992 Toyota Camry with 315,000+ miles. I am finding getting some parts for it is getting harder.

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“Perhaps my expectations” spell checker error. I need to proofread posts.

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Prior to owning an iPhone I liked the having the choice of picking up & installing a battery if needed.

I bet all those phones died quickly if they got wet. By being sealed, the newer iPhones are water resistant. My iPhone 11 is supposed to be water resistant in 2 meters of water for up to 30 minutes. Allowing you to open the internals easily to installing new batteries would compromise that water resistance. I like the fact that I could get caught in a heavy rain or accidentally drop my phone in a puddle and it will keep on working.

PSU

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I bet all those phones died quickly if they got wet. By being sealed, the newer iPhones are water resistant. My iPhone 11 is supposed to be water resistant in 2 meters of water for up to 30 minutes. Allowing you to open the internals easily to installing new batteries would compromise that water resistance. I like the fact that I could get caught in a heavy rain or accidentally drop my phone in a puddle and it will keep on working.

PSU

Not an issue with me as I live in the desert SW and thus never had a moisture issue with any cellphone.

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“Not an issue with me as I live in the desert SW and thus never had a moisture issue with any cellphone.”

Y

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“Not an issue with me as I live in the desert SW and thus never had a moisture issue with any cellphone.”

You still can drop phone in bath tub or sink or swimming pool and it gets went. Or get pushed into pool with phone in your hip pocket.

Haven’t had a problem but don’t take the phone out by the pool anyway, especially when I’m working on the pool. One phone, long time ago, went for a swim - never recovered - but it was old flip phone and new replacement was like $30.

iPhone? Do I need an iPhone? I got a decent Samsung phone. Doesn’t have 3 camera lenses and probably some other stuff but meets my needs.

Yeah, old iPhone batteries, like all phone batteries, get weary after five years…some less…depending upon how well you take care of them. If you run them down every day, that’s 365 charge cycles a year. 1500 in less than five years. Some run their phones down in 8 hours, charge them, run them another six hours - every day. More cycles on the battery.

VW…had an 11 year old bug in 1967. All of 36 HP…zero to 60 in a minute and eight seconds - with a tailwind - or downhill. Ran decent…but gas mileage was low 20s. Rest of cars in 50s and 60s got 13 mpg or so. Things like big GTO with big engine got six or eight mpg. Station wagons were lucky to get 13. A few cars like the Ford Falcon got 20.

Computers? Still running Win 3? Windows 97? Vista? In the 1980s, I went through computers every few years… Commodore, Radio Shack, PC Cone, XT clone, Pentium…

Now it’s about every 7 years.

Cars go 200,000 miles or more. In the 50s and 60s, a car was ‘really worn out’ at 100,00 and most needed major work at 60,000 to 80,000 miles including engine rebuilds, transmission overhauls. They got 20,000 miles on a set of tires, needed tune ups twice a year, went through ‘shocks’ and ‘mufflers’ every two years…and rusted out after five years.

t.

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Not an issue with me as I live in the desert SW and thus never had a moisture issue with any cellphone.

Well, then the iPhone is not the right cell phone for you so you should search for a manufacturer that will provide the features that you want.

PSU

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I bet all those phones died quickly if they got wet. By being sealed, the newer iPhones are water resistant. My iPhone 11 is supposed to be water resistant in 2 meters of water for up to 30 minutes. Allowing you to open the internals easily to installing new batteries would compromise that water resistance. I like the fact that I could get caught in a heavy rain or accidentally drop my phone in a puddle and it will keep on working.

PSU

Not an issue with me as I live in the desert SW and thus never had a moisture issue with any cellphone.

Never had a problem in Seattle either. Seattle is not exactly known for its dry conditions.

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As someone pointed out not too long ago: about 70% of the US economy amounts to sucking money out of consumer’s pockets.

If consumers could not be motivated/pressured/conned into spending so much, the US would plunge into a deep recession, as the “JCs” howl for the government to fund another “cash for clunkers” program to artificially juice demand.

Steve

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“As someone pointed out not too long ago: about 70% of the US economy amounts to sucking money out of consumer’s pockets.”

There are sort of things that people need - like food, housing, medical care, clothing, etc.

You can live ‘cheap’ buying second hand clothes at garage sales or second hand stores like Goodwill, Salvation army, etc, or hand me downs.

You can live cheap by making ALL your meals at home from scratch, brown bagging it, etc, not buying coffee/Starbucks or ‘snacks’ or lunch out.

You can certainly ‘downsize’ most American homes - we’ve gone from 2 and 3 bedrooms to 4 and 5 bedrooms, from a ‘living room’ to media rooms, second ‘living areas’, swimming pools, etc.

You don’t have to join the country club. You can cut hair at home.

You don’t have to wear designer jeans, clothes, and especially sneakers at $150/pr.

You can go tent camping or a pop-up trailer or similar cheaply. No need for a big truck to haul your fifth wheel RV or giant boat.

You can drive a 15 or 20 year old car if you take care of it from the time you get it…or even longer. No need for a new car every three years as your lease is up. If not, drive it at least 8 to 10 years if you buy it new. Or maybe not even buy a car.

For some, it is 100% of disposable income spent to live. For most, it is probably 50% of income to ‘live’ and the rest is money that can be sucked out on non-necessities. (like meals out, clothing, shoes, cars, sports, ATVs, boats and fishing trips, vacations. For some, it is 130% of disposable income spent…until there is no more credit to be had…

Same for college debt. You can run up $100K in loans for your degree that pays you $30,000 a year…or $50K for a degree that gets you a $85K starting salary. Choices. Money sucking…

Consumers have been ‘trained’ from the first time they watched TV or went on line to ‘appreciate’ high end stuff. Envy…gotta be like the ‘xxxx’ and wear ‘yyyy’ clothing…consume ‘zzz’ alcohol to have a good time. Own a ‘zoom zoom zoom’ car or other than magically goes wherever with zero other traffic, day, night, rush hour…etc. Go on vacations to ‘aaaa’ and blow lots of money. This ‘cereal’, this ‘toy’, etc.

I still remember the ads I saw as a kid…Ovaltine…Wheaties…Corn Flakes…Kool-Aid, Tony the Tiger…Frosted Flakes… of which I consumed never…or seldom…

Billions are spent on ‘advertising’ to hook you. It works…

t

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I bet all those phones died quickly if they got wet. By being sealed, the newer iPhones are water resistant. My iPhone 11 is supposed to be water resistant in 2 meters of water for up to 30 minutes.

Yup. Dropping your phone in water is a risk you take if it is not sealed. In fact DH managed to do just that when taking his new phone out to photograph a brook trout before throwing it back in. Of course, his phone was under $200, so even if Costco had not given us a replacement for it for free, which they did, (buying with a credit card often provides insurance on purchase,)we could have bought 5 phones for the price of an I Phone. That’s a value that works for me.

IP

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https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2022/03/senators-introduce-r…
Three U.S. Senators – Ron Wyden, Cynthia Lummis, and Ben Ray Luján – introduced legislation last week to ensure the right to repair.

The Fair Repair Act of 2022 would require manufacturers of digital electronic equipment to make tools, parts, and documentation available to owners and independent repair providers. This is the first right to repair measure introduced into the Senate that would apply broadly to several industries, including consumer electronics, farm equipment, medical equipment, and motor vehicles.

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Three U.S. Senators – Ron Wyden, Cynthia Lummis, and Ben Ray Luján – introduced legislation last week to ensure the right to repair.

Right To Repair! A 2€ repair by a cobbler extended the useful life of a pair of $75 sneakers by at least six month.

The Captain
didn’t know that a law was required to visit cobblers. No one asked me for a permit or a repair license. I guess the Portuguese are just lax. LOL

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Manufacturers are actively limiting access to data needed to repair products. Shouldn’t the owners have the right of choice to repair rather than being forced to buy replacements.
tinyurl.com/furwj4v6
A few years back, frustration at John Deere’s draconian tractor DRM culminated in a grassroots tech movement dubbed “right to repair.” The company’s crackdown on “unauthorized repairs” turned countless ordinary citizens into technology policy activists, after DRM (and the company’s EULA) prohibited the lion’s share of repair or modification of tractors customers thought they owned. These restrictions only worked to drive up costs for owners, who faced either paying significantly more money for “authorized” repair, or toying around with pirated firmware just to ensure the products they owned actually worked.
Of course the problem isn’t just restricted to John Deere. Apple, Microsoft, Sony, and countless other tech giants eager to monopolize repair have made a habit of suing and bullying independent repair shops and demonizing consumers who simply want to reduce waste and repair devices they own. This, in turn, has resulted in a growing push for right to repair legislation in countless states.

https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Subaru-picks-a-right…
Cars already have a diagnostic port that mechanics can access for basic repair information, but independent auto shops say that only carmakers and their dealers have access to the real-time diagnostics that cars now transmit wirelessly. That’s increasingly important amid the shift to electric cars, many of which don’t have those diagnostic ports.

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Manufacturers are actively limiting access to data needed to repair products.

Sometimes it’s sheer stupidity. I asked a company for a schematic of something, I no longer remember what. They replied that it didn’t exist. When I ordered a replacement part the schematic I was looking for was included! Another company with a similar request sent me a compete manual and even a tube of LocTite to keep a certain nut in place, no charge! Hard to believe, the boat’s wheel had came off! Hard to steer without it! LOL

BTW, Apple’s co-founder Steve Wozniak wanted to send out all sorts of info about the Apple ][ while Steve Jobs didn’t want anyone to have access to anything.

The Captain

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